That would be cool if you could just use extreme pressure to make a part...
That would be the radical new technique called "forging"
Amazing Engineering Breakthrough!
- Thread starter iain53
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That would be the radical new technique called "forging"
The PROBLEM with aluminum is that in order to cast it, it requires silicone added to make it flow easier, which also weakens Aluminum alloys... With pressure behind it (aka as what MIM would use, a big hydraulic ram to inject the aluminum) the 6061 may be able to be injected, as long as its not too complicated a shape. Aluminum also cools very quickly, which is why it is harder to use it with injection molding type processes.
This could be where the "engineering breakthrough" is, or it could just be my imagination!
Most Aluminum used in Aerospace is forged, there are very few applications where castings are used as they tend to be porous. The only castings worth using when it comes to casting Aluminum are investment cast or high pressure cast, both of which require tool up costs not justified with most volumes/profit margins seen in the fire arms industry. The benefit it is that castings can hold a tolerance of +-.001 depending on the casting house.
The main cylinder on the landing gear of the V-22 Osprey is an Aluminum forging that does not get heat treated after arriving from the forging house. Most T6 (refers to the temper) comes from the mill in this state and does not go for heat treat once the machining begins as Aluminum is notorious for distorting and can not be ground back to size.
That would be the radical new technique called "forging"
ssshhhhhhhhhhhhh, that was classified.
I think its important to consider polymers are oil based, as it is the U.S is a net importer of oil. Why create yet an other product that is dependant on foriegn oil. The cost of electronics (think scope and missle guidance systems) will go up in the coming years as a result of the tightening supply of rare earth metals. China controls over 90% of the worlds proven reserves...... kind of off topic but a good stock to watch is Canada's own Alavon (ticker AVL.to), who is sitting on the worlds second largest proven deposit.
its already being done btw - http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...ymer-ar-15-lower-recievers-back-in-production - CAV-15 polymer AR-15 lower recievers back in production
Meh yourself, So you buy a cheap plastic lower to reduce cost then replace the parts with metal? There goes the cost/weight saving.
On the Arf thread it was mentioned adding metal FCG will oval the pin holes with the added mass.
Again, I will pass and go with a standard forged lower.
thought my point was kind of obvious............ from a national defense perspective its not a good idea to build your main line rifle from a product that is imported from countries you are in conflict with or stand a good chance of being in conflict with..........
I agree,
There is a reason that Glock, who is the king of polymer fire arms does not build their slides from polymer and instead uses aluminum. There are some parts that should not be made of anything but metal.
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Is not the hammer assembly and sear on the Steyr AUG made mostly of composite polymers? How often do you read about them breaking (where they can be legally owned, of course
To quote an Australian weapons tech when I asked about failures of the AUG plastic trigger pack "They run like a raped ape" I think that is a good thing.
That would be the radical new technique called "forging"
Haha very funny, I meant injected into a finished part.
I think the real weight savings is in replacing the receiver not the FCG which is a small portion of the overall weight. I'm only saying I like the concept not that I know anything about the details of this specific application. If they can make it work through continual development then I think a polymer lower for the AR could be a very good thing. AR lowers are already cheap and you can probably build one for the same or less then the plum unit out of aluminum, its the performance of polymers that I like. A view shared by pretty well all the worlds arms manufacturers who are piloting new designs. Its lighter and a natural insulator. Often it can be a very good replacement for aluminum. Aluminums and steels are great too, its just a matter of using them in their own specific application to their fullest potential.
Probably right. If their offering is bad then it would be cool to see them amend the issues and offer a great product. Or someone else make it better. Often manufacturers save money by either not using enough reinforcing material or the cheaper types with polymers which always baffles me as the cost difference is minimal.
RE the whole energy/resources argument. Lets get real, oil is a pervasive resource and suggesting that abandoning polymers in favor of metal parts is incredibly simplistic. Oil is used to generate electricity which is then used to run mills and lathes etc, fuels the tractors that make our food, the planes in the sky, your SUV, your SMART Car, create the plumbing in your house etc etc etc. Yea yea yea, lets not be dependent on oil for our own good... thing is our whole economy, lifestyle in fact survival is based on oil at this point. Actually without the current consumption of oil Canada's survival specifically is in jeopardy. Resource and energy capitalization is what now makes this country viable. Interesting asside, the pricing I've gotten from US companies for injection molding is now so close to Asian pricing that its not worth dealing with Asia for the most part. Polymers may be an area where the US can start to properly compete...
We compete and at the same time trade with the rest of the 6+ billion people of the world for everything from oil to metals to food to goods. Should we change how we engage in this relationship? Sure that would be a very good debate to have, but its an extremely complex issue, kinda like Chess to the 100th power. Start pulling out cards based on superficial ideals and you may not like what you get. Now lets add carbon trading to the mix... Saying "I don't buy X from person A while you wear sox made by person A is a great example of how unending this debate is and I have barely scratched the surface of the argument.
All this debate is pretty funny though considering the new fantastic AR could be made of tree pulp for all I know. If someone can bring a quality AR to market for half the cost then I say more power to them. If it means that a guy who has $1500 to spend can now spend half of that on ammo and actually shoot the gun that much more, become proficient at defending their home and family, enjoy the stress relief etc then more power to them.
Heck maybe the OP just made it all up and we've gone this far OT for nothing.
Haha very funny, I meant injected into a finished part.
high pressure casting and they can be cast into a finished part (minus any holes) within a tolerance of +-.001.
I was thinking more along the lines of it being done cold.
You cant injection mold anything cold and in the world of metals, if you add enough pressure anything heats up.
I dont see why doing it cold matters?
Your ready way too much into it. It was just an "it would be cool if" conjecture statement.
