Piston Driven ARs

AJCrowley

AJCrowley

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I'd like one of these, though my reasoning on preferring piston to direct impingement is somewhat vague - my H&K is piston, and I like that, and I like less cleaning, and there's a list of other reasons why piston is better.

That nice bloke from Knight's (I think) wrote something on why piston "ain't all that" a while back, and I was curious to hear everyone's thoughts on the matter.

I noticed that Arms East has a fairly reasonably priced Stag piston AR for sale, but have no idea if it's any good.

My other option is to get an LMT with the piston kit, but that's a lot of money.

So many things to buy, and nowhere near enough money....so I'm trying to educate myself so I make the right purchase.
 
All's I know is I absolutely love my HK mr7.62, for a number of reasons. Much less cleaning, accuracy better than any C7 or civi variant thereof that I've shot and being able to remove the rail and not re-zero any sighting devices after replacing it stand out. That the system is high quality materials and proven to have little loss of accuracy after 15,000 plus rounds means it was worth the price, imho.

I know many are quite happy with the typical AR models, I just think piston driven ARs' are a better way. Plus vets I know who have been to the sandbox and had the opportunity to use a G3 or 416/417 system all said they preferred it much more than the C7 /C8's they had been issued with in the past.

It doesn't help I've been a H&K addict since handling my first USP compact 10 years ago so having a civi version of the 417 has put me in 7th heaven!
 
In general I think that most of the piston systems out there are basically good.

If your looking for a piston system for your AR for the reason that its easier to clean... Then go with a system that allows quick and easy removal of the piston through the front of the gun.

My personal thought on it (as someone who owns both)... I don't think the piston systems are "Better" I think they are different.

I like DI because I have fewer parts and more standardized parts.
I like piston because its easy to clean.


Personally, I'm not convinced that my piston gun is more reliable... Nor am I convinced that my DI gun is more reliable.


BUT, again... My only real thing against piston guns is the fact I have to order parts... I can't just walk into my corner gun store and grab parts for the piston off the shelf.
 
Are you planning on participating in amphibious warfare with your rifle? No, well then you probably don't need a Piston rifle. The trade off's just don't exist.
 
I've been overseas twice with the infantry, and I was completely confident in my C8 FTHB, and would not trade it for any other coalition rifle. Yeah, alot of countries had fancy gas piston rifles... but the G36 is an unmitigated POS, and the few 416's I saw probably had never fired a shot in anger.

There are people who need the piston uppers, you ain't one of them. Save your money, buy a quality AR15 and learn that the proper way to run an AR is wet, and you'll have an extremely reliable weapon.
 
I own a stag, colt, imperial defense, and a MR223 and the H&K MR223 is the best rifle by far...

The MR223 is more accurate, has less felt recoil and as long as you don't have wimpy little arms the muzzle heavy issue in not a problem at all. I put over 1000 rounds through it without a cleaning and had no 0 issues, and when I did finally give it a clean it still looked cleaner than one of my DI's after about 100 rounds.
The one drawback was the initial cost, but I figure that since the bolt never gets heated up like my DI rifles I will probably have less overall repairs and replacement parts in my future.
As for the reliability, The MR223 can withstand dirt, dust ,sand,and water far better than any DI..... Period.
I know that most ppl dont need a rifle that can withstand the elements when you only pull it out to go to the range, but it sure is nice to know that if S ever does HTF that you have a rifle that you can be sure will do what you need it to do in our demanding Canadian environment...

Now I know I will get some flak from the DI folks here, but I would have traded my C7 or C8 any day of the week for a H&K 416/17 when I served.
 
pbr streetgang, do you suppose that a lot of the differences you experience with the piston-AR (esp. the overheating) may be due to the fact you fire it only on semi-auto, in limited-capacity magazines?....:yingyang:

Just asking!...:redface:
 
cyclone said:
pbr streetgang, do you suppose that a lot of the differences you experience with the piston-AR (esp. the overheating) may be due to the fact you fire it only on semi-auto, in limited-capacity magazines?....:yingyang:

Just asking!...:redface:
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Whether you are firing in semi or full auto / 10 or 30 rnd mags, you can get the bolt on a DI smoking hot... It could quite possibly never be an issue but again, if I had to choose one rifle it would be a piston. I still like my DI's but if SH'sTF, I'm reaching for the MR223 first.

Just my opinion, no disrespect to the DI folks
 
I really don't see the point of a civilians needing piston driven ARs. you really wont get the benefit from it, so not worth the extra cost.
 
Piston AR

Moving mechanical parts crashing together on a long barrel of a piston AR compared to a clean DI barrel -
Which do you think would be more accurate?

My instinct tells me the barrel with no reciprocating pieces will be steadier and whip more consistantly (As in an M-14 verses a bolt gun).

However - on a CQB shortie its a non issue due to the stiffness of a 10" barrel in comparison to a 20" (I found no accuracy variation when I swapped to a piston on my shorty).

Shorties generate much more unburned powder and carbon than a regular length barrel which gums up and slows the bolt. A piston eliminates that.

I have found piston AR's to cycle faster,with snappier (not more) recoil which is great for competition, allowing for faster and more accurate double taps.

As for the Stag piston AR - although I prefer a different piston style I shot one and was impressed with the performance and it seems to be the best priced piston deal available.

:ar15:
swingerlh.gif
 
Well, all good things to know, thanks people.

Perhaps DI is the way to go for now....that LMT is looking pretty good.

One thing that concerns me about ARs is when shopping for them, I'm frequently presented with things like, "AR repair kit" - a box containing about 50 springs and pins. Are they really that ####ty that they break all the time?

I love me G36ified SL8, but would like a lighter carbine too....
 
AJCrowley said:
Well, all good things to know, thanks people.

Perhaps DI is the way to go for now....that LMT is looking pretty good.

One thing that concerns me about ARs is when shopping for them, I'm frequently presented with things like, "AR repair kit" - a box containing about 50 springs and pins. Are they really that s**tty that they break all the time?

I love me G36ified SL8, but would like a lighter carbine too....
Click to expand...

They only break if you dont have spares.

If you have spare springs then they NEVER break -;)

:ar15:
swingerlh.gif
 
Having recently completed a program that had both piston and DI guns, I am still on board for DI guns for 7.62x51 and 5.56mm.

For 7.62x39 and 5.45x39, I will go with a piston gun, as their are nasty dirty.


Suppressed, it is possible to have a DI 5.56mm gun go over 5k rounds with no cleaning and no lube ;)
Our 7.62mm gun will do over 3k suppressed, no cleaning, no lube.

Pistons guns tend to need certain parts modified.
Hk noticed this in later Hk416's and make a relief cut for the cam pin does not eat up the upper reciever.

At the end of the day, unless your planning on shooting semi-submerged, that your not needing a piston 5.56mm or 7.62mm NATO gun...
 
A little review of the Stag Arms Model 8.
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/featured_rifles/RS_8isenough_201004/index.html

I'll admit I sorta poo-poo'd the idea of the piston gun, before I bought one. But now with a couple of thousand rounds through one, with no cleanup for examination purposes, I'm really starting to like it. Works great, digests everything, and stays cool and fairly clean.

Either way, you'll never hear that you NEED a piston AR, cause DIs work just fine, but they do have their place. I do think the Stag Arms 8R is the best deal in Canada on a piston AR. ;) The Govt Model 8R we're selling comes with a good set of sights, a very good barrel, and a lifetime warranty.
 
Put a high round count through your H&K and you will see your rifle still running while the other guys is cleaning and drenching his gas impingement AR with clp. Yes there is a little more weight on an MR223 in the front, but it is a much more solid rifle. All the other companies had to play catchup when this bad boy was released!

That being said the traditional AR gas impingement isn't going anywhere, but for me i would go H&K MR223 anyday of the week.

Questar has a nice 308 POF 12 inch barrel rifle in stock for under 4g's, if i had the money i would get that too.

I own both the MR308 and MR223, and man that is a great line of rifles too choose from.
Definitely vastly superior to my C7/8 and variants i use to use, if having the cash and option i would go with a nice H&K you won't really look back especially if you shoot a lot.
 
KevinB said:
Our 7.62mm gun will do over 3k suppressed, no cleaning, no lube.
Click to expand...

Hmm....perhaps you could send me one for review? I'll report back every few thousand rounds. :)

dangertree said:
I do think the Stag Arms 8R is the best deal in Canada on a piston AR. ;) The Govt Model 8R we're selling comes with a good set of sights, a very good barrel, and a lifetime warranty.
Click to expand...

You would say that, since that's the one I was toying with the idea of buying on your site. :)

Again, if you'd like to send me a review unit, I'd be happy to report back with my findings....
 
AJCrowley said:
Well, all good things to know, thanks people.

Perhaps DI is the way to go for now....that LMT is looking pretty good.

One thing that concerns me about ARs is when shopping for them, I'm frequently presented with things like, "AR repair kit" - a box containing about 50 springs and pins. Are they really that s**tty that they break all the time?

I love me G36ified SL8, but would like a lighter carbine too....
Click to expand...

Piston ARs are just the latest fad.

An AR "repair kit" is available:

~ simply because ARs are run harder than 99% of other actions by their users, simply put, most other systems NEVER see enough rounds to need parts.

~ there are more manufacturers of AR system rifles than any other type, some are marginal, and low rent.

~ ARs have been in continuous use and production for 50 years, all parts and springs have a service life, service rifles were never expected to survive over a year of combat service in the "modern nuclear conflict", let alone 40+...
 
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