Parker Hale muzzle loaders
- Thread starter y2k
- Start date
- Location
- West coast of Vancouver Island
They are the cream of the repros, price depends on condition and model.
Top of the line!
Many of the Parker Hales that were made in England are assembled using parts that were manufactured using the original Enfield tooling and are interchangeable with originals (other than different screw threads). It can be argued that these are 'new production' as opposed to 'reproduction'.
Many of the Parker Hales that were made in England are assembled using parts that were manufactured using the original Enfield tooling and are interchangeable with originals (other than different screw threads). It can be argued that these are 'new production' as opposed to 'reproduction'.
I was at the Pattern Room in 1976 and saw the original Enfield gauges, just after they got them back from PH. Must have been 40 feet of gauges along that table and some of them went 2 feet up the wall. Really impressive!
I DID have the very first of the Parker-Hale Enfields in my hands that day AND the Sealed Pattern for the same rifle; they were side by side on the big rack. All I will say is that, to me, the Parker-Hale appeared even better made than the original, although a little lighter in weight..... likely due to the fact that the stock had had 100 years less to absorb BLO.
Should have mentioned that the Pattern Room was really happy to have got their Master Gauge set back, PH had had it for several years, during which they made a brand-new set of slave gauges (duplicates) from the Masters and these slave gauges, made from the original Masters, were used to govern production of the rifles built. The job took several years just to make the gauges because of the sheer number of gauges to be made and the precision which was demanded in order that the new rifles be as precise as it was possible to make them. The finished product was a real tribute to Sir Joseph Whitworth.
Parker-Hale did a BEAUTIFUL job on these rifles.
I DID have the very first of the Parker-Hale Enfields in my hands that day AND the Sealed Pattern for the same rifle; they were side by side on the big rack. All I will say is that, to me, the Parker-Hale appeared even better made than the original, although a little lighter in weight..... likely due to the fact that the stock had had 100 years less to absorb BLO.
Should have mentioned that the Pattern Room was really happy to have got their Master Gauge set back, PH had had it for several years, during which they made a brand-new set of slave gauges (duplicates) from the Masters and these slave gauges, made from the original Masters, were used to govern production of the rifles built. The job took several years just to make the gauges because of the sheer number of gauges to be made and the precision which was demanded in order that the new rifles be as precise as it was possible to make them. The finished product was a real tribute to Sir Joseph Whitworth.
Parker-Hale did a BEAUTIFUL job on these rifles.
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I had my Musketoon for sale for months with no takers...it's probably the most beautiful rifle I've ever owned. I've never seen nicer bluing.
Shelldrake
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Right behind you,,
Hmm, when was that?
I've seen some PH musketoons and other Parker Hales on the EE, that were slow to sell, but they would normally have some modifications done or had obvious wear and tear, or parts missing.
Bottom line is, it has to be in excellent, unmodified condition to get the premium price. Otherwise, it's just another repro and the Parker Hale brand won't help much there.
cantom, the day I had the two rifles in my hands, I looked pretty carefully at the finish on the metal, believe me.
I think the Parker-Hale was the EQUAL of the original Sealed Pattern as far as metal finish was concerned, but I really don't think it was detectably BETTER.
The original rifles were just as gorgeous as the PHs when they were made. It's just that we only get to see them, normally, after they have been kicked around for 150 years.
I guess that's one of the problems with being born in the 1940s rather than the 1840s!
When I was working in a shop one time, we had to clean up and sell an immense collection from an estate. This included more than 50 1886 Winchesters alone and, under the grunge, I discovered a Mark III Snider that I am positive was unfired. Truly a work of art, believe me. Stayed late at night cleaning that one, very carefully. Glad it found a good home. Closest I can come to it is the unfired Mark IV Martini-Henry which 'queens it' in my vault with the over-length Winchesters (73 and 92, both in .32-20) and the W&C Scott & Sons 11-bore double.
I think the Parker-Hale was the EQUAL of the original Sealed Pattern as far as metal finish was concerned, but I really don't think it was detectably BETTER.
The original rifles were just as gorgeous as the PHs when they were made. It's just that we only get to see them, normally, after they have been kicked around for 150 years.
I guess that's one of the problems with being born in the 1940s rather than the 1840s!
When I was working in a shop one time, we had to clean up and sell an immense collection from an estate. This included more than 50 1886 Winchesters alone and, under the grunge, I discovered a Mark III Snider that I am positive was unfired. Truly a work of art, believe me. Stayed late at night cleaning that one, very carefully. Glad it found a good home. Closest I can come to it is the unfired Mark IV Martini-Henry which 'queens it' in my vault with the over-length Winchesters (73 and 92, both in .32-20) and the W&C Scott & Sons 11-bore double.
PH for sale.
ya, Cantom will probably too polite to use this thread for a sales pitch, but I looked at his PH listing every other day. His rifle is mint. If I wasn't so focused in gathering up originals, I would scoop it up just to have a good shooter. Not a bad price for a good as new arm either.
ya, Cantom will probably too polite to use this thread for a sales pitch, but I looked at his PH listing every other day. His rifle is mint. If I wasn't so focused in gathering up originals, I would scoop it up just to have a good shooter. Not a bad price for a good as new arm either.
stickhunter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Victoria, B.C.
Cantom, my apologies if this is incorrect as I can't find your posting anymore, but if I recall, your rifle was slightly modified as it had been drilled/tapped for a tang peep sight. If so, that might have been the reason why it was slow-to-sell.
I've heard nothing but rave reviews for the PH Enfields, yet I know of 3 that have languished unsold for months at fairly reasonable prices of $400-$600. These are the short-barrelled musketoons, and according to their owners are original PH production run.
The ones that I've seen scooped up almost immediately are the longer two-band rifles, which I assume are either more desired for reenactments or just more rare. Does anyone know the reason? I would think for a hunting arm, the musketoon would be handier.
I'm also concerned about how to properly identify an original British manufactured PH from the newer Euroarms versions. From what I understand, boths have Birmingham markings. Does anyone know of a foolproof check (perhaps based on serial number?)
Shelldrake
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Right behind you,,
This site used to have some good info on it,,including serial numbers,, now it looks like it has been neutered.
http://www.lrml.org/parkerhale/index.htm
This forum is probably a better place to get a response to particulars,,
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/
Yes, mine was drilled and tapped. 
However, a kind member sent me two filler plug screws and it looks great with the stock sights back on it, plus I have the Lyman sight, which is a nice option for hunting. (although the stock sights are very good anyway)
I also just got a new firing pin protector with chain last week, that chain was missing.
I did a fair bit of searching on the net re the Parker Hales, and the big authority I found indicated that in my serial number range it was definitely British made. I think it was over the 10,000 mark till they shifted production to Italy.
However, a kind member sent me two filler plug screws and it looks great with the stock sights back on it, plus I have the Lyman sight, which is a nice option for hunting. (although the stock sights are very good anyway)
I also just got a new firing pin protector with chain last week, that chain was missing.
I did a fair bit of searching on the net re the Parker Hales, and the big authority I found indicated that in my serial number range it was definitely British made. I think it was over the 10,000 mark till they shifted production to Italy.
- Location
- West coast of Vancouver Island
I had a Musketoon that was my moose rifle
stevejones
Regular
- Location
- Courtenay, BC
Loads
Depends on what you want it to do. I use 60 gr. of 2F in my 3 bander for 100 yards. I have not had a chance to shoot it any further as our local range does not go any further. I increased the load 5 gr. at a time until I reached 80 gr. Each group was 2 inches with the groups rising as the powder charge increased (of course). The important thing I have found is to make sure you get the Lyman mold made specifically for the Parker Hale muskets. Its #575-213PH and weighs 565 grains. I have not tried anything else as I went through a gauntlet of different types of minies when I was trying to get my musketoon to shoot. Nothing would group decently unless it was very light loads until I got the proper mold. By the way, I found using 3F to be critical in the musketoon to get good accuracy. With that short barrel you need that extra kick to upset the skirt into the rifling. Both muskets also liked Becel light margarine for lube best too. I believe the musketoon is not as popular because there is a mistaken belief that it is not as accurate. I have found it to be as accurate as my 3 band but recoil is higher but this happens in most carbines (?). I just picked up a Parker Hale Volunteer rifle that I will be taking to another local club that has a 600 yard rang. Not sure i can see that far...
Cheers.Steve.
Depends on what you want it to do. I use 60 gr. of 2F in my 3 bander for 100 yards. I have not had a chance to shoot it any further as our local range does not go any further. I increased the load 5 gr. at a time until I reached 80 gr. Each group was 2 inches with the groups rising as the powder charge increased (of course). The important thing I have found is to make sure you get the Lyman mold made specifically for the Parker Hale muskets. Its #575-213PH and weighs 565 grains. I have not tried anything else as I went through a gauntlet of different types of minies when I was trying to get my musketoon to shoot. Nothing would group decently unless it was very light loads until I got the proper mold. By the way, I found using 3F to be critical in the musketoon to get good accuracy. With that short barrel you need that extra kick to upset the skirt into the rifling. Both muskets also liked Becel light margarine for lube best too. I believe the musketoon is not as popular because there is a mistaken belief that it is not as accurate. I have found it to be as accurate as my 3 band but recoil is higher but this happens in most carbines (?). I just picked up a Parker Hale Volunteer rifle that I will be taking to another local club that has a 600 yard rang. Not sure i can see that far...
Cheers.Steve.
I suspect that what cantom meant to convey was that, although the British-made P-H rifles were indeed manufactured to the original specifications as far as dimensions and finish are concerned, since their barrels are made of modern steel (rather than the wrought iron of the originals) they are arguably "better" .... at least in terms of both strength and durability ....
At one time I owned a British-made P-H Artillery Carbine (aka "Musketoon") - an absolute " peach" which I should never have sold - and still own a British-made P-H 3-band rifle - a thing of beauty and very accurate with the right load.
From sandbags, at 100 yards -
Oh, there is no doubt that a steel barrel is better than a soft-iron barrel, at least in terms of wear and strength.
What I thought he was referring to was standards of fit and finish, interior and exterior. It was a real "rush" to be able to handle two such perfect rifles, made a century apart.... and to KNOW from personal observation that no corners had been cut on either one.
I make that group pretty close to 1.5 MOA. I will NOT stand in front of that one!
My Snider Carbine (Mark III) can hit a Player's pack at 40 yards, 4 out of 5, and that's good enough for me. I'm keeping that one in case of an attack by Killer Zombies or Tyrannosaurs or something REALLY ugly!
What I thought he was referring to was standards of fit and finish, interior and exterior. It was a real "rush" to be able to handle two such perfect rifles, made a century apart.... and to KNOW from personal observation that no corners had been cut on either one.
I make that group pretty close to 1.5 MOA. I will NOT stand in front of that one!
My Snider Carbine (Mark III) can hit a Player's pack at 40 yards, 4 out of 5, and that's good enough for me. I'm keeping that one in case of an attack by Killer Zombies or Tyrannosaurs or something REALLY ugly!
Admittedly, that is the best target I ever shot with my P-H (hence its place among my "treasures") but at least it does show the accuracy potential of these rifles, if all the planets are aligned as it were .....
(As evidenced by the 'X' through the bull, it was achieved on a mere "practice target", not in competition ..... )
(As evidenced by the 'X' through the bull, it was achieved on a mere "practice target", not in competition .....
)
