So like many Canadian gun owners I pulled the trigger on a Norinco M4.
The reasoning is simple Price and Lefty friendly controls.
The price was key because I knew I was going to be building/customizing it to my tastes anyhow and pretty well all the areas of concern were going to be addressed anyhow. I ran the gun on the Adler Tactical Carbine course last weekend putting about 800 rough rds through it and that is the basis of my current opinion of the rifle. I've done quite a bit so I figure a note on each modification is in order as well. Keep in mind that any issues I bring up aren't exactly unique to the Norc flavor of AR, there are many variations between manufacturer and even within manufacturers and unless you're expecting to spend big dollars on an off the shelf AR don't expect it to be a whole lot better then the Norc in many respects. In US terms the Norc would be a bargain AR but many down there consider RRA, DPMS and Bushmaster to be low end as well, our limited access to a variety of builders may skew the opinions of some.
So a brief note on the factory configuration. Things that stand out right off: the lower controls work great, machining is a bit rough on the BCG, some surface areas, upper and lower have less play then the last C7 I was issued, factory carbine handguards are the fat variety, factory off the shelf trigger is pretty rough. Finish isn't as matte as the majority of ARs. All in all A steal of a deal for $700, keep in mind though that in the US its pretty common to find Colt M4 style rifles for $1000-$1100 now so we generally pay too much for ARs up here due to import restrictions etc. I would expect the Norc AR to sell for around $500 in the US where it once again would be a steal of a deal.
Accuracy; China isn't known for much in the way of quality but one thing I've learned is that they are good barrel makers. Sure they exterior finish isn't great but my M305 with factory barrel makes consistent sub MOA groups with quality ammo and this Norc M4 (NM4) delivered nice tight groupings in the 2MOA range with cheap Wolf and Privi 55 gr pellets. So I would rate the Norinco as average or slightly above for accuracy when compared to other ARs of similar configuration. If you worked up a handload I'd expect close to MOA and be disappointed if it didn't. Either way we're talking practical accuracy and in those terms the NM4 is good to go.
Durability; frankly just under 1k rounds isn't a real test of long term quality but I can say that I have had 0 failures with the gun to date. As a side note I haven't cleaned it since buying nor do I plan to for as long as it runs well. I wanna see just how well it holds up so either the carbon pisses me off or it start to have cycling issues before it sees more then a bore snake.
Exterior Finish; some people really care about this, frankly I couldn't give a s**t about how hot my personal guns look in the mirror. Guns are best when not used in the bathroom and fancy just means most people are scared to scratch it. All that said I found the exterior finish to be pretty good and the anodizing consistent although not as durable as some. Larue mounts mar it quite easily but then they mar rail finish anyhow. Get out and use whatever you have as much as you can, who cares if it gets scratched.
So thats pretty well my impression of the gun how it comes.
Now for the build. Honestly I used a lot of Magpul stuff and have more on the way. I love this company, they make great quality accessories at a great price and if it didn't work I wouldn't hold onto it no matter what brand.
Lets start with the upper.
Handguard; I have long arms so carbine length handguards never feel right and the angle of my arm tends to bring my hand to the magwell which is typically a bad place for it. So going to a floating handguard was a no brainer. There are a ton of options out there with the DD lite rail probably being the best, but its also quite expensive, so for now I passed and went for the YHM Diamond handguard in rifle length. Its a standard railed tube style floating handguard that functions as advertised, price is more then fair IMHO.
I went with the rifle length because any shorter and the Magpul AFG wouldn't work for me. If I was using a vertical grip the specter length would likely be a great option given the weight savings. I think if I was to do it again I would probably get the YHM lightweight rail as the weight is nearly half. For now the Diamond is good and if I do upgrade it will likely be a DD lite.
Installation has already been covered by Gerry from Mystic so I'll be brief. Yes I cut off the gas block, the pins wouldn't budge. Not really a unique issue to NM4s. I cut off the barrel nut too, I didn't really try to torque it off cause I was cutting the gas block anyhow and had no plans to keep it. Installing the new barrel nut is easy with the right tools and the handguard installation is all straight forward. Anyone can do this just get the right tools and take your time with the cutting wheel.
Gas Block; I went with the midwest industries low profile gas block. http://www.midwestindustriesinc . com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=253
There are more expensive and I'm sure better gas blocks out there. I think the Larue is a good. I chose the MW 1. because its easy to line up the port hole, 2. it comes with 3 set screws instead of the usual two and 3. its steel so there should be no issues with heat expansion that can accompany aluminum blocks.
Installation is pretty straight forward, your best bet is to watch the Brownells videos if you want a good guideline on assembly. I did have some trouble getting the gas tube installed. The OD on the tube was about .0005 larger then the ID of the tube hole on the block. I don't know if its the tube or the block that are out of spec if at all. I ended up placing the tube in a vice and tapping the block on with a mallet after polishing tube as much as I could. I thought I might ruin the tube but figured worst case I get a new tube, best case its nice and tight. Its nice and tight. So far zero movement of the block, I'm happy with it.
BUIS/Irons; Magpul MBUS. Whats there to say, the price is in true MP fashion great and the quality is good too. I shot about 350 rounds with these and and they always held zero. I like the fact that hey are lightweight. I highly recommend these BUIS. One drawback is the height, as you can see in the pic they do clear the scope when not deployed but a larger bell would be an issue. The gen2 MBUS is supposed to be lower. Installation is obvious.
Magpul AFG (angled fore grip); wow yet again a smart, effective product from these guys. I really like how comfortable getting your hand out towards the muzzle is with this product. Wrist angle is natural.
Muzzle device; Rauch Tactical BullDog Brake
. It works. Muzzle rise is almost nil and getting back on target is fast. Its the standard easy to clean design. Installation is the usual shtick. I did notice that the norc comes with a spring type lock washer which you can probably reuse, I went for a crush washer from ebay. Like all functional and effective brakes the sound follows the gases which are directed to the side, unless your a real #### like me you should be aware that those shooting beside you will be pleased.
Now for the lower.
Stock, I went with an ACS and I'm glad I did. I've used a wide variety of stocks and its my favorite so far. The CTR/MOE are nice too but this one is more comfortable and offers storage for batteries and the bore snake. It is heavier then the CTR and with the batteries helps balance the rifle nicely. Another thing I like about it is unlike the Vltor my beard doesn't get ripped from my face.
I have one beef with this stock, its about 1" longer then standard collapsible stocks. For most people including me its not an issue, I like to run my stock right where this one is fully collapsed. The issue I have is that fully collapsed it interferes with the ASAP as you'll see. Installation is obvious.
Single Point Sling Attachment; I drank the cool-aid and baught the ASAP. I think its a great design but if your stock is fully collapsed as you can see in the pic the attachment ring doesn't move freely thus inhibiting its intended function. For most people its a non issue but for those like me who like a short LOP and your stock is fully collapsed disappointment may be your reward. Otherwise its a great product, I just have to be honest about my specific application. Installation is obvious.
Pistol Grip; Magpul MOE. OK so the MAID is good, for me though the medium size is ideal. Therefore simple is better and the MOE is simple and the right size. I'm a fan of the ergo as well. Installation is obvious.
Buffer; Hbuffer. This is something new for me but between the brake and the buffer, there's almost zero felt recoil. I'm going to do a direct comparison changing it out for the factory and back a few times at the next range session so I'll give the a better review of its function then.
Trigger; Timney single stage 3lb. Yep its good and its easy to install. Well its almost easy to install, the trigger group installs easy enough. However I had to file down the safety a bit to make it work. I don't know if its the norinco safety or if its a typical issue with this trigger but some custom fitting was required in my case. That issue aside what a wonderful trigger.
A note on the norc trigger. Out of the box its pretty ugly but I put 800 rds down the tube and it ended up pretty good, most of the creep and all the grit was gone. Modifying the spring could would probably make it pretty light. Best $400 trigger job ever IMHO. Point is a factory trigger gets better with time.
Charging Handle; Armadynamics Ambi!!!. Charging handle is the biggest beef I have with the AR platform, my lord what a stupid design. I think most have just accepted it because its how they're trained. If you're a lefty man its terrible, there's just no efficient way to work it. Then came Armadynamics, these guys are plain brilliant. What a smart design. I ran about 200 rounds with this yesterday and it works like a charm. Simply pull the handle back and you can cycle the action.
One thing I don't like is that the carrier can't be locked back for the left side to function. It needs the spring pressure of the carrier to operate. I honestly can't think of any situation where this would be a huge issue but its still something to note.
Now if only they could make the charging handle integral to the carrier and further forward the AR would be close to ideal...
Thats all for now.
>1000 rounds, no clean and not one stoppage.
The reasoning is simple Price and Lefty friendly controls.
The price was key because I knew I was going to be building/customizing it to my tastes anyhow and pretty well all the areas of concern were going to be addressed anyhow. I ran the gun on the Adler Tactical Carbine course last weekend putting about 800 rough rds through it and that is the basis of my current opinion of the rifle. I've done quite a bit so I figure a note on each modification is in order as well. Keep in mind that any issues I bring up aren't exactly unique to the Norc flavor of AR, there are many variations between manufacturer and even within manufacturers and unless you're expecting to spend big dollars on an off the shelf AR don't expect it to be a whole lot better then the Norc in many respects. In US terms the Norc would be a bargain AR but many down there consider RRA, DPMS and Bushmaster to be low end as well, our limited access to a variety of builders may skew the opinions of some.
So a brief note on the factory configuration. Things that stand out right off: the lower controls work great, machining is a bit rough on the BCG, some surface areas, upper and lower have less play then the last C7 I was issued, factory carbine handguards are the fat variety, factory off the shelf trigger is pretty rough. Finish isn't as matte as the majority of ARs. All in all A steal of a deal for $700, keep in mind though that in the US its pretty common to find Colt M4 style rifles for $1000-$1100 now so we generally pay too much for ARs up here due to import restrictions etc. I would expect the Norc AR to sell for around $500 in the US where it once again would be a steal of a deal.
Accuracy; China isn't known for much in the way of quality but one thing I've learned is that they are good barrel makers. Sure they exterior finish isn't great but my M305 with factory barrel makes consistent sub MOA groups with quality ammo and this Norc M4 (NM4) delivered nice tight groupings in the 2MOA range with cheap Wolf and Privi 55 gr pellets. So I would rate the Norinco as average or slightly above for accuracy when compared to other ARs of similar configuration. If you worked up a handload I'd expect close to MOA and be disappointed if it didn't. Either way we're talking practical accuracy and in those terms the NM4 is good to go.
Durability; frankly just under 1k rounds isn't a real test of long term quality but I can say that I have had 0 failures with the gun to date. As a side note I haven't cleaned it since buying nor do I plan to for as long as it runs well. I wanna see just how well it holds up so either the carbon pisses me off or it start to have cycling issues before it sees more then a bore snake.
Exterior Finish; some people really care about this, frankly I couldn't give a s**t about how hot my personal guns look in the mirror. Guns are best when not used in the bathroom and fancy just means most people are scared to scratch it. All that said I found the exterior finish to be pretty good and the anodizing consistent although not as durable as some. Larue mounts mar it quite easily but then they mar rail finish anyhow. Get out and use whatever you have as much as you can, who cares if it gets scratched.
So thats pretty well my impression of the gun how it comes.
Now for the build. Honestly I used a lot of Magpul stuff and have more on the way. I love this company, they make great quality accessories at a great price and if it didn't work I wouldn't hold onto it no matter what brand.
Lets start with the upper.
Handguard; I have long arms so carbine length handguards never feel right and the angle of my arm tends to bring my hand to the magwell which is typically a bad place for it. So going to a floating handguard was a no brainer. There are a ton of options out there with the DD lite rail probably being the best, but its also quite expensive, so for now I passed and went for the YHM Diamond handguard in rifle length. Its a standard railed tube style floating handguard that functions as advertised, price is more then fair IMHO.
I went with the rifle length because any shorter and the Magpul AFG wouldn't work for me. If I was using a vertical grip the specter length would likely be a great option given the weight savings. I think if I was to do it again I would probably get the YHM lightweight rail as the weight is nearly half. For now the Diamond is good and if I do upgrade it will likely be a DD lite.
Installation has already been covered by Gerry from Mystic so I'll be brief. Yes I cut off the gas block, the pins wouldn't budge. Not really a unique issue to NM4s. I cut off the barrel nut too, I didn't really try to torque it off cause I was cutting the gas block anyhow and had no plans to keep it. Installing the new barrel nut is easy with the right tools and the handguard installation is all straight forward. Anyone can do this just get the right tools and take your time with the cutting wheel.
Gas Block; I went with the midwest industries low profile gas block. http://www.midwestindustriesinc . com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=253
There are more expensive and I'm sure better gas blocks out there. I think the Larue is a good. I chose the MW 1. because its easy to line up the port hole, 2. it comes with 3 set screws instead of the usual two and 3. its steel so there should be no issues with heat expansion that can accompany aluminum blocks.
Installation is pretty straight forward, your best bet is to watch the Brownells videos if you want a good guideline on assembly. I did have some trouble getting the gas tube installed. The OD on the tube was about .0005 larger then the ID of the tube hole on the block. I don't know if its the tube or the block that are out of spec if at all. I ended up placing the tube in a vice and tapping the block on with a mallet after polishing tube as much as I could. I thought I might ruin the tube but figured worst case I get a new tube, best case its nice and tight. Its nice and tight. So far zero movement of the block, I'm happy with it.
BUIS/Irons; Magpul MBUS. Whats there to say, the price is in true MP fashion great and the quality is good too. I shot about 350 rounds with these and and they always held zero. I like the fact that hey are lightweight. I highly recommend these BUIS. One drawback is the height, as you can see in the pic they do clear the scope when not deployed but a larger bell would be an issue. The gen2 MBUS is supposed to be lower. Installation is obvious.
Magpul AFG (angled fore grip); wow yet again a smart, effective product from these guys. I really like how comfortable getting your hand out towards the muzzle is with this product. Wrist angle is natural.
Muzzle device; Rauch Tactical BullDog Brake
. It works. Muzzle rise is almost nil and getting back on target is fast. Its the standard easy to clean design. Installation is the usual shtick. I did notice that the norc comes with a spring type lock washer which you can probably reuse, I went for a crush washer from ebay. Like all functional and effective brakes the sound follows the gases which are directed to the side, unless your a real #### like me you should be aware that those shooting beside you will be pleased.Now for the lower.
Stock, I went with an ACS and I'm glad I did. I've used a wide variety of stocks and its my favorite so far. The CTR/MOE are nice too but this one is more comfortable and offers storage for batteries and the bore snake. It is heavier then the CTR and with the batteries helps balance the rifle nicely. Another thing I like about it is unlike the Vltor my beard doesn't get ripped from my face.
I have one beef with this stock, its about 1" longer then standard collapsible stocks. For most people including me its not an issue, I like to run my stock right where this one is fully collapsed. The issue I have is that fully collapsed it interferes with the ASAP as you'll see. Installation is obvious.
Single Point Sling Attachment; I drank the cool-aid and baught the ASAP. I think its a great design but if your stock is fully collapsed as you can see in the pic the attachment ring doesn't move freely thus inhibiting its intended function. For most people its a non issue but for those like me who like a short LOP and your stock is fully collapsed disappointment may be your reward. Otherwise its a great product, I just have to be honest about my specific application. Installation is obvious.
Pistol Grip; Magpul MOE. OK so the MAID is good, for me though the medium size is ideal. Therefore simple is better and the MOE is simple and the right size. I'm a fan of the ergo as well. Installation is obvious.
Buffer; Hbuffer. This is something new for me but between the brake and the buffer, there's almost zero felt recoil. I'm going to do a direct comparison changing it out for the factory and back a few times at the next range session so I'll give the a better review of its function then.
Trigger; Timney single stage 3lb. Yep its good and its easy to install. Well its almost easy to install, the trigger group installs easy enough. However I had to file down the safety a bit to make it work. I don't know if its the norinco safety or if its a typical issue with this trigger but some custom fitting was required in my case. That issue aside what a wonderful trigger.
A note on the norc trigger. Out of the box its pretty ugly but I put 800 rds down the tube and it ended up pretty good, most of the creep and all the grit was gone. Modifying the spring could would probably make it pretty light. Best $400 trigger job ever IMHO
. Point is a factory trigger gets better with time.
Charging Handle; Armadynamics Ambi!!!. Charging handle is the biggest beef I have with the AR platform, my lord what a stupid design. I think most have just accepted it because its how they're trained. If you're a lefty man its terrible, there's just no efficient way to work it. Then came Armadynamics, these guys are plain brilliant. What a smart design. I ran about 200 rounds with this yesterday and it works like a charm. Simply pull the handle back and you can cycle the action.
One thing I don't like is that the carrier can't be locked back for the left side to function. It needs the spring pressure of the carrier to operate. I honestly can't think of any situation where this would be a huge issue but its still something to note.
Now if only they could make the charging handle integral to the carrier and further forward the AR would be close to ideal...
Thats all for now.
>1000 rounds, no clean and not one stoppage.
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