Schultz & Larsen model 65 advise please

muckle said:
308 Norma Mag was a good caliber until the 300 Mag came along
and but the 308 Norma Mag back in the Beauty Safe for people
to look at .

Your Pal Muckle LOL
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Was and still is. The 300 WM was a come lately follow the leader effort by the U.S. An attempt to 'compete' but not quite as well designed cartridge as the 308 NM. Compared to the 308 NM:stirthepot2: it comes in at second place at best, which is the first place loser:p.
 
Johnn Peterson said:
Was and still is. The 300 WM was a come lately follow the leader effort by the U.S. An attempt to 'compete' but not quite as well designed cartridge as the 308 NM. Compared to the 308 NM:stirthepot2: it comes in at second place at best, which is the first place loser:p.
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I have both, and fully agree with Johnn on this one.:D :cheers: Eagleye.
 
The first 30 cal magnum I had was a PH in 308 NM. The reason the guy sold it to me is he had just acquired a Schultz & Larsen in that same caliber. I bought the PH but promised myself, one day I'd have a Schultz. A number of years later I spotted a VERY nice Winchester model 70 in some sort of a deluxe or fancy grade, in 300 WM. It had nicely figured wood in the butt stock, two sizes of checkering with some oak leaf bordering. I picked that up and sold the PH. About three years later I located a model 65DL Schultz & Larsen in 308 NM, mint condition that I couldn't live without and still have it.

A friend of mine was starting up a business and though cash was a little tight for him at that time, he wanted to join me on a Moose hunt. I've had a couple of rifles given to me and seeing as I had basically two pretty well equal 30 cal magnums, I gave him the model 70. He still has it and on my next visit up his way, I have a couple boxes of reloads to deliver.

I'll see if I can get him to take a couple of pic's and if he does, I'll post them.
 
I haven't seen to many Norma Mags winning 1000 yards competitions
Like the 300 win Mag has a history of wins . So the 308 Norma mag
is very nice Safe Queen Dobinson LOL I have seen your's it's lovely
rear locker which is knowen for a weak action .
 
Hayya muckle, the beautieeee safe is where these fine works of art deserve
when at idle (S&L 308 Norma's), not the trunk monkeys (300 winniez) you call an after market fore thought.
Well Mr. gunrunner8, nice to see we finally agree on something.
Coffee's still on me, that is if'in you're still up to it.
J.P., you're a gentleman, thanks for the wonderful photos of your inventory.
I really don't need that 358 you're after, but eye'm on the lukeout for you.
Cheers mate.
 
muckle said:
I haven't seen to many Norma Mags winning 1000 yards competitions
Like the 300 win Mag has a history of wins . So the 308 Norma mag
is very nice Safe Queen Dobinson LOL I have seen your's it's lovely
rear locker which is knowen for a weak action .
Click to expand...

Hey Muckle,you still got that plastic stocked manlicher 300 wsm? Dont leave it to close to the wood stove. Cheers!
 
kamlooky said:
Hayya muckle, the beautieeee safe is where these fine works of art deserve
when at idle (S&L 308 Norma's), not the trunk monkeys (300 winniez) you call an after market fore thought.
Well Mr. gunrunner8, nice to see we finally agree on something.
Coffee's still on me, that is if'in you're still up to it.
J.P., you're a gentleman, thanks for the wonderful photos of your inventory.
I really don't need that 358 you're after, but eye'm on the lukeout for you.Cheers mate.
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Thanks guy. Much appreciated:). I REALLY like the model 1651 Husqvarna in 358 NM I picked up from Why not? but I'd still like to get a 358 NM in the Schultz. As nice as the Husqvarna is though;), I'll keep that as well.
 
Johnn Peterson said:
Thanks guy. Much appreciated:). I REALLY like the model 1651 Husqvarna in 358 NM I picked up from Why not? but I'd still like to get a 358 NM in the Schultz. As nice as the Husqvarna is though;), I'll keep that as well.
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I saw that picture you posted of your 358 husky. Thats a very nice rifle John, I would like one like that as well, but it would be hard to find. Cheers Pete.
 
...all of you arguing over these two new-fangled cartridges (of which I have owned both).

e4149hhsuper30.jpg
 
kamlooky said:
Hayya muckle, the beautieeee safe is where these fine works of art deserve
when at idle (S&L 308 Norma's), not the trunk monkeys (300 winniez) you call an after market fore thought.
Well Mr. gunrunner8, nice to see we finally agree on something.
Coffee's still on me, that is if'in you're still up to it.
J.P., you're a gentleman, thanks for the wonderful photos of your inventory.
I really don't need that 358 you're after, but eye'm on the lukeout for you.
Cheers mate.
Click to expand...

You have a good memory kamlooky, if you will be in Salmon Arm at the gun show next weekend then i might as well cash in, in return I will let you in Heffley Gun Club as a guest for some target shooting. 308 NM is my future pet project, so far I have reamer and a barrel, hopefully I will score LH action at the show....
 
I will have a table at the Salmon Arm gun show. I have decided to put a sign on my table with my gunnutz call sign on it, so you gunnutz people will recognize it. My sign will just be "CGN H4831."
Drop by and say hello.
 
muckle said:
I haven't seen to many Norma Mags winning 1000 yards competitions
Like the 300 win Mag has a history of wins . So the 308 Norma mag
is very nice Safe Queen Dobinson LOL I have seen your's it's lovely
rear locker which is knowen for a weak action .
Click to expand...

Initially, probably the commercial front runner in 30 caliber magnum development and something that would fit in a standard length (30-06) action was lead by Normas efforts. The 308 Norma Magnum. Seeing the resulting popularity in the U.S. market, Winchester, followed, and came out and flooded the North American market with a very close copy, the 300 WM.

Another similar innovation/development was the 7x61mm Sharpe & Hart. Basically developed by Philip Sharpe and Richard Hart and standardized it was then brought into a commercial reality by Norma and Schultz & Larsen. Seeing the popularity and the commercial potential, two U.S. interests, Weatherby and Remington to compete, followed suit and brought out a couple of somewhat similar and slightly more potent cartridges. Again, flooding the North American market with their new efforts. I would say, with both the 308 NM and the 7x61 S&H, it wasn't necessarily a 'better' cartridge that put a halt to their popularity but rather marketing, flooding the market with product and availability.

I am a Schultz & Larsen fan and you're quite correct, their action isn't the greatest design and wouldn't be my first pick if I was designing and developing a bolt action. However, talking to a couple of technically knowledgeable people, I'm lead to understand that this design deficiency has been minimized by the metallurgy of the action and its design.

I have two Schultz & Larsens, never had a problem with either and I'm looking for a third. I'm not a benchrest shooter. My focus in firearms and reloading ammunition is geared towards quality and accuracy in a hunting class. As such, I haven't found the Schultz & Larsen rifles lacking in strength or accuracy in the calibers I have.

TheSchultzLarsenTwins.jpg


308NormaMag.jpg
 
Johnn - regarding the Schultz & Larsen rear lugs - iirc the Danes built the first (first few?) runs of .378 Wby Mag rifles on their rear lug actions.
 
1899 said:
Johnn - regarding the Schultz & Larsen rear lugs - iirc the Danes built the first (first few?) runs of .378 Wby Mag rifles on their rear lug actions.
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I've been led to believe Schultz & Larsen was one of the suppliers of actions period for Weatherby when Weatherby was first starting out. As much as I like Schultz & Larsen, I still think the action design using the rear locking lug feature is not the best concept. There's better designs out there. But having said that, I have no complaints on the two rifles I have. I see no evidence of a weak action and the resulting case stretch, the overall quality and fit is great and accuracy top notch. I was also informed, the barrels they've used are the equivalent of douglas air guage, top of the line.
 
I have purchased in the past a couple of books written by Frank de Haas. One on particular is the Bolt Action Rifles, Revised Edition. He does a good job of describing a mitt full of firearms and their history, construction, good and bad points. Some he has owned just for the sheer act of taking them apart and finding what makes them tick and inking the findings. I think a good read and interesting to get a second point of view. He has a half dozen pages on the Schultz & Larsen and the different models with the calibers they came with.
Nice to see that we share the same train of thought on reload spec's Johnn. I found that after 2900 fps, the pattern likes to widen on the 308 Norma. I'm loading on 165 Hornady soft point interlocks. Same powder with 67.5 charge. Book value gives it a 2950 fps but chrono at the range bumps it up a bit more. Memory tells me 3050. Don't know whether book value is more accurate than the chrono. Nice shooting on a magnum Johnn. I think that if the caliber started out as 308 Winchester Mag or 308 Remington Mag, history on this caliber would of faired differently. The North American lads like their own. Regardless, this is a truely fine caliber and the Schultz & Larsen is crafted with skill and precision. Who invented the palm swell? This model 65 of mine has one.
Enjoy the sun, cheers and cut some tags.
 
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kamlooky said:
I have purchased in the past a couple of books written by Frank de Haas. One on particular is the Bolt Action Rifles, Revised Edition. He does a good job of describing a mitt full of firearms and their history, construction, good and bad points. Some he has owned just for the sheer act of taking them apart and finding what makes them tick and inking the findings. I think a good read and interesting to get a second point of view. He has a half dozen pages on the Schultz & Larsen and the different models with the calibers they came with.
Nice to see that we share the same train of thought on reload spec's Johnn. I found that after 2900 fps, the pattern likes to widen on the 308 Norma. I'm loading on 165 Hornady soft point interlocks. Same powder with 67.5 charge. Book value gives it a 2950 fps but chrono at the range bumps it up a bit more. Memory tells me 3050. Don't know whether book value is more accurate than the chrono. Nice shooting on a magnum Johnn. I think that if the caliber started out as 308 Winchester Mag or 308 Remington Mag, history on this caliber would of faired differently. The North American lads like their own. Regardless, this is a truely fine caliber and the Schultz & Larsen is crafted with skill and precision. Who invented the palm swell? This model 65 of mine has one.
Enjoy the sun, cheers and cut some tags.
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;)We may have the same book:D. For the first few years after I retired, periodically I would go work the odd maintenance shutdown on the tools. This served as a transition from working 40 - 60 hrs/week for 40 years to full retirement. On a couple of local SD's I met a guy up from the states that was doing basically the same thing who was also a Schultz & Larsen fan. On one of his jaunts up here for a SD he gave me a copy of Bolt Action Rifles. The expanded 4th Edition by Frank de Haas and Dr. Wayne van Zwol.:). Very handy source of info that I'd forgotten about until you mentioned it:redface:.

Both my model 65DL and 68DL have the palm swell and it does feel comfortable. A further example of the extra effort and refinement that is a testament to Schultz & Larsen rifles:cool:.
:D:cheers:
 
I currently own the following Schultz's:
Model 68Dl in .22-250 Rem
Model 60 in 7x61 S&H
Model 68Dl in 7mm Rem Mag
Model 65Dl in .264 Win Mag
Model 65Dl in .308 Norma Mag
Model 65Dl in .338 Win Mag
Model 65Dl in .358 Norma Mag
Model 54J in .378 Weatherby Mag with the Weatherby diamond in the pistol-grip cap ( one of approx 330 rifles made by Schultz and sold by Weatherby in their new .378 Mag caliber before they came out with their own MkV action)
All of these rifles will shoot sub 1" with Norma Factory ammo and most will shoot close to 1/2" with good handloads. The perceived weakness of the rear locking lug system is more myth than fact. Look at the small ejection port and the thickness of the receiver side walls. Benchrest shooters used to sleeve actions to get stiff receivers like the Schultz has. Do you really think that massive diameter bolt is going to compress or somehow flex in that stiff receiver at any sane pressure???
I have shot some very hot handloads out of my rifles with no shortened case life or excess case stretching. Schultz barrels have a long and excellent reputation with many benchrest shooters and with many custom rifle makers (including at least one Austrian gunsmith that I am aware of). Overall fit and finish of Schultz & Larsen rifles rival custom guns that start at $5,000. and up.
I sold all my Weatherbys and most of my Sako's to concentrate on Schultz & Larsens, and dare I admit it, Marlin lever guns.
 
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