Hopkins & Allen Mfg. Co top break revolver in 38-200 British (legal antique) ?

starpuss

starpuss

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 98.6%
146   2   0
Location
Mb WWW.TOXICREDNECK.COM
i got this email from my of my dealer in the usa. do you think this would pass off as a legal antique?
he is going to email me some pic's

i thought 38-200 British was made in the 1920's? but maybe its the old .380cal

Hello,

I have a question for you involving another revolver I just picked up. It is a Hopkins & Allen Mfg. Co., top break revolver. The Mfg barrel address dates it to pre 1897. I purchased it thinking it was a 38 S&W. No caliber is marked on the pistol. When I got it home this afternoon I found that both 38 S&W and 38 Short Colt stop short in the chamber, leaving enough cartridge exposed at the back of the cylinder to prevent closing the revolver. 38-200 British however enter the revolver properly and looks right against the muzzle. I know the cylinder is original to the revolver. It is matched by part number to the frame under the grip. If this revolver will fly in Canada, it is a very pretty. It is a nickel finish with a six inch barrel and patented folding hammer spur. The pat date on the spur is Jan 27 85. The finish is original and about 94 to 96 % complete. Mechanically it works very well. The bore has fairly strong rifling with some light marks and pitting. I am deciding if I should list it on Sunday or hold it for a local show next weekend.

Best in life
Click to expand...

update on post #14
 
Last edited:
pic's that he emailed me.

*** delivered if you can use it and I ship it with the ones you bought last week. I am going probably going to list it at *** and see what happens. Antiques are always a gamble. If it doesn't sell it will come down of go to the show next weekend. The pictures of the barrel rib address and safety patent did not come out well. To much glare from the bright nickel finish. I will retake them before I list the revolver. Both are sharp and clear. The pistol has not been refinished. The ammo I checked the cylinder with was modern smokeless powder Winchester factory. I have a stash of FN made 38-200 which fits nicely.
Click to expand...

www.hillbillytactical.ca/cgnpic/h&a/b1.jpg
www.hillbillytactical.ca/cgnpic/h&a/b2.jpg
www.hillbillytactical.ca/cgnpic/h&a/b6.jpg
www.hillbillytactical.ca/cgnpic/h&a/b8.jpg
 
If the gun is that old, it won't be designed for the .380/200, which was definitely on the .38S&W casing, just with a heavy bullet and rather a heavy loading. Even if the H&A would accept the round, I wouldn't fire it.

Most likely the gun is chambered for the ORIGINAL 38/100 central-fire cartridge which came out at the close of the 1860s and was the precursor of all the rest of the family. I have a few rounds here: copper cases, folded-head construction, big Boxer primers in battery-cups (looking like shotgun primers but a bit smaller), heel bullets, outside lubrication.

Far as I know, this round died out in the 1890s because there were much 'better' cartridges around: .38 Short Colt, .38 Smith & Wesson and others of that ilk.

But I think that's what you are looking at. DEFINITELY no ammo for the last century-plus. I don't think the Registry even knows what it is; they certainly won't admit to the existence of my Remington Army conversion to 44/100, done in 1868: they are sure it's a .44-40 although the rounds will not fit, even with a hammer.

If you'd like the dimensions, I can measure an original and post here.

OTOH, it is possible also that it could be a .38RF.

Hope this helps.
.
 
.38 S&W doesnt fit in the cylinders though he said. So it must be a different calibre wouldnt it be?.

I'm sure .38 rimfire is very easy to rule out, just look at the hammer. So that leaves..
 
Starpuss why is it that 'people' react to your posts before they read them???? Seems to be happening alot lately and always assuming the worst. Beautiful gun BTW.
 
38 S&W and the british .38-200 use the same case, the only difference measured between them are normal manufacturing tolerances. Also I believe that the .38-200 only came out in the 1920s, so this revolver is most likely chambered for the S&W round. Probably the seller's 38 S&W ammo just has a fat bullet thats getting stuck in the throat.
 
what do you think the gun is worth ? (i know in 38s&w not being a antique there worth 300-500 in "good" shape.)

but this one if i can find out what cal and age and if i get a antique letter. i bet it would be worth 600-800 in Canada. seeing it's in VG shape.
 
fiscus said:
38 S&W and the british .38-200 use the same case, the only difference measured between them are normal manufacturing tolerances. Also I believe that the .38-200 only came out in the 1920s, so this revolver is most likely chambered for the S&W round. Probably the seller's 38 S&W ammo just has a fat bullet thats getting stuck in the throat.
Click to expand...

he is a antique dealer with 200+ antiques in stock at all time. i sure hope he knows how to check if a 38s&w fits.

but yes your right there both the same. so i dont see why his 38-200 works in it...

maybe the cal is S&W 38-44?
 
ok. got a email back from the dealer. after i asked him to recheck.
Hello,
I am sorry I raised your hopes unnecessarily. I suspect the chambers on the revolver are cut to the tight side. I have a box of Winchester 38 S&W which will not fit. I looked around and found some old S&W brand ammo and a newer box of an off brand, both of them do fit. Unfortunately I believe it is 38 S&W
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom