Oddly, that situation doesn't seem to come up very often anymore. Now it's more like "should I respond to a swaggering, sarcastic, Spanish inquision style annoyance in like manner". I've found that I can pass a licence, gesture at a rifle and point at the back of the truck without even talking. That's all the questions I'm interested in answering.
Varrying degrees of breaking the law or poaching, etc...
- Thread starter Canadian_Zuk
- Start date
Oddly, that situation doesn't seem to come up very often anymore. Now it's more like "should I respond to a swaggering, sarcastic, Spanish inquision style annoyance in like manner". I've found that I can pass a licence, gesture at a rifle and point at the back of the truck without even talking. That's all the questions I'm interested in answering.
I'm reasonably sure that they are counting on that. Make a guy mad and see what he says. Make vague accusations and see how how he defends himself. Invent powers that no officer has and try to throw your weight around. Get a guy talking, and see if he talks himself into a corner.
If he were to arrest you, the first thing he would tell you is that you have the right to remain silent, so you may as well start there. His job is to try to find something wrong with what you say, and to trip you up on anything you may have done. Since you are unlikely to confess to something you have knowingly done wrong, he is looking for a mistake that you didn't know about. People should think about that when they think they have nothing to hide. Besides, the little pamphet we get isn't the whole wildlife act. You can be charged with things that you haven't even heard of.
Then there's the cases where the officer makes a mistake, doesn't understand a point or the regs are misprinted or badly worded. Do you want to go to court because they can't hire a proof reader?
Didn't you say you were walking out from you're spot after legal shooting time? According to the letter of the law where I live, hunting includes walking to and from your spot. I think it would be ridiculous for someone to get ticketed for travelling to/from their spot, or being there a little outside the legal window, just as I think it would be silly to get ticketed for shooting a few minutes outside the legal window. If officers want to get really anal, they could find a ticket for even the best intentioned hunter. The NRO's I've run across were reasonable guys, I hope I don't run into someone on a power trip. If I do, I hope I'm not 2 min after legal time when I shoot. I quit when I can't see very well, and it's usually a little before "official legal time"
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I agree.
In BC the end of legal shooting time, for everything except migratory birds, is one hour after sunset. Even on a good day that is pretty dark and on a dull, overcast day, it is black. So very little danger of anyone violating that rule.
And certainly, you can legally walk home from your hunting spot, stand or otherwise, after the end of legal shooting time, unless you have a bright light with you.
I hunted for quite a few years before game wardens in this province carried handguns or even had uniforms. Was it just coincidence that at that time the game wardens actually used common sense and, mostly, did not try and find some insignificant thing they could charge a person for?
Being stopped on a road check then by a man stepping out of a Plymouth sedan with no radio equipment for calling in backup, in a plaid jacket and blue jeans, was considerable different than now.
Emergency lights flashing from a vehicle bristling with radio antenna, an intimidating figure with a mustache and permanent scowl, stepping out in full uniform with flak jacket and an autoloading pistol very readable, is a far different scenario.
What happened to mutual respect?
And certainly, you can legally walk home from your hunting spot, stand or otherwise, after the end of legal shooting time, unless you have a bright light with you.
I hunted for quite a few years before game wardens in this province carried handguns or even had uniforms. Was it just coincidence that at that time the game wardens actually used common sense and, mostly, did not try and find some insignificant thing they could charge a person for?
Being stopped on a road check then by a man stepping out of a Plymouth sedan with no radio equipment for calling in backup, in a plaid jacket and blue jeans, was considerable different than now.
Emergency lights flashing from a vehicle bristling with radio antenna, an intimidating figure with a mustache and permanent scowl, stepping out in full uniform with flak jacket and an autoloading pistol very readable, is a far different scenario.
What happened to mutual respect?
Everything in life has gray interpretations. A minute her or there...who cares!. Shooting 10 15 minutes before or after the legal shooting time..well that's cheating. Now the question is ..when do we go from gray times to prosecution times!
I travel on the quad and walk before and after legal shooting time with a trigger lock on the gun and in a gun case...kind of a pain because then you still have to carry this stuff out during legal shooting time or around the area that I'm shooting in!! The plus is I don't get badgered by the CO's, and they have passed me in the dark!
nope, i was sitting on my pack by the roadside waiting, as pre-arranged. My unloaded rifle was hanging on a fencepost. I understand the broad written definition of 'hunting', but evidently they said I wasn't, but pointed out that had my rifle been loaded, I would have been hunting.
Again, I do not disagree with the existence of grey areas, or the need for common sense. What I do disagree with, is the arbitrary re-definition of 'poaching' or 'legal', by individuals to fit their own interpretation of shades of grey. Everybody go ahead and be as grey as you want, as Dogleg said, the argument over whose watch is correct won't last long if the NRO doesn't want it to.
If I really want to be somewhere at legal time where the restriction is in effect,I quad in so that I am at my hunting location,and the gun is off of the quad before one hour before sunrise.My gun is in a case,but none of my rifles have ever had a trigger lock on them.The hardest part is waiting until noon to quad out if you have an animal down hours before noon.
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
In Sask, no firearm/bow/ML, etc............
can be on an ATV up to zones 61 I believe.After zone 61 it is legal.Can use it to travel, or retrieve your downed game.Was told by the CO's that I could leave my bow at my stand and use the quad all I want back and forth.
Here is the funny part, I can drive my truck with any weapon right to my stand if I wanted.Causing much more damage to the Forrest.
can be on an ATV up to zones 61 I believe.After zone 61 it is legal.Can use it to travel, or retrieve your downed game.Was told by the CO's that I could leave my bow at my stand and use the quad all I want back and forth.
Here is the funny part, I can drive my truck with any weapon right to my stand if I wanted.Causing much more damage to the Forrest.
In Sask, no firearm/bow/ML, etc............
can be on an ATV up to zones 61 I believe.After zone 61 it is legal.Can use it to travel, or retrieve your downed game.Was told by the CO's that I could leave my bow at my stand and use the quad all I want back and forth.
Here is the funny part, I can drive my truck with any weapon right to my stand if I wanted.Causing much more damage to the Forrest.
As near as I can tell, our ATV rules were based more on everyone not haveing one than anything else. Think of all the zones that only allow ATVs after noon and try to come up with another reason.
You may not be old enough to remember when we could be charged for locking the hubs on our trucks.
A lot of our more stupid rules can be traced directly to reccomendations from the wildlife federation and outfitters association. They ram a lot of stuff through when nobody else is paying attention.
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
I guess when it is the legislature creating the laws with recommendations by professors and environmental specialist's as well as the ones you mentioned, who don't have much real world experience(professors and specialists) , let alone actual hunters and outdoor enthusiasts this is what the result is.Seems a bit like Ontario to me.
Sounds to me like the actual residents of an area are the ones that suffer the most from the rules and laws implemented to aide or "protect" others hunting rights and privileges. And we, the residents of that area are the ones that contribute the most in many ways by supporting our local clubs, buying new vehicles, ATV's, rifles, bows, gas, groceries , etc........
As for the locking hubs, I may not be that old but would hardly attribute my not remembering to my youth. , Actually I do recall something along those lines.
I even remember reading somewhere about using an ATV with loaded firearm/bow/cross bow. rifle and cross bow, sure, regular bow? OM MY
Sounds to me like the actual residents of an area are the ones that suffer the most from the rules and laws implemented to aide or "protect" others hunting rights and privileges. And we, the residents of that area are the ones that contribute the most in many ways by supporting our local clubs, buying new vehicles, ATV's, rifles, bows, gas, groceries , etc........
As for the locking hubs, I may not be that old but would hardly attribute my not remembering to my youth.
, Actually I do recall something along those lines.I even remember reading somewhere about using an ATV with loaded firearm/bow/cross bow.
rifle and cross bow, sure, regular bow? OM MYAs near as I can tell, our ATV rules were based more on everyone not haveing one than anything else. Think of all the zones that only allow ATVs after noon and try to come up with another reason.
You may not be old enough to remember when we could be charged for locking the hubs on our trucks.
tactical870
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Buckhorn, Ontario
I think I view the law more from an ethical standpoint. If someone makes a mistake and shoots a little before or after the time allowed, that's no big deal. Using your firearm after dark to finish off game wounded during daylight hours? That's fine with me too. Trespassing? Shooting from a roadway? Poaching at night? Out of season? No tag? These are unacceptable and need to be dealt with. These aren't accidents, they're intentional and the people that commit them deserve the harshest punishment the law allows.
When I finally acquiesced to his demands to show my tags and licences and dug out my wallet he practically shoved his nose into it . Sure pissed him off when I turned my back on him to remove the requested papers
provoking another tirade on what do I have to hide etc.etc.
so here's one for thought...if you guide waterfowl in MB ( and potentially elsewhere is Canada), you must have a valid game bird licence and federal stamp - mandated. However it is illegal to hunt when you are guiding. So the gov't has advised me after an inquiry, that the feds believe that guides are hunting when you are guiding, and yet the province has expressly forbidden it. Maybe someone can clear that one up.
The thing to remember with the enforcement chain is that the CO understands hunting in the general sense however when you get to a Crown attorney of Judge that has never left the city, their understanding is much different. Furthermore, to those who slam CO's etc., I agree with Kelly Timofee (sorry if I screwed that up) that they are just another person doing a relatively thankless job. I had an experience at a checkstop this past year that was uncomfortable as someone else in our party had inadvertantly broken the game laws and I was transporting his animal. I was up front, honest and although I received a warning - warranted - I was treated well and was treated fairly.
And as for the shooting three minutes before sunrise question....unless someone has a direct link to Greenwich to get the exact moment calibrated against the best of technology, you would be fine I',m sure. And if you're not - ie. a CO tags you, I'm sure it would be a very reasonable argument in court. You have to be proven guilty remember.
The thing to remember with the enforcement chain is that the CO understands hunting in the general sense however when you get to a Crown attorney of Judge that has never left the city, their understanding is much different. Furthermore, to those who slam CO's etc., I agree with Kelly Timofee (sorry if I screwed that up) that they are just another person doing a relatively thankless job. I had an experience at a checkstop this past year that was uncomfortable as someone else in our party had inadvertantly broken the game laws and I was transporting his animal. I was up front, honest and although I received a warning - warranted - I was treated well and was treated fairly.
And as for the shooting three minutes before sunrise question....unless someone has a direct link to Greenwich to get the exact moment calibrated against the best of technology, you would be fine I',m sure. And if you're not - ie. a CO tags you, I'm sure it would be a very reasonable argument in court. You have to be proven guilty remember.
This post has stuck in my mind for awhile. It has disturbed me enough, that I feel I must respond.
You are trying to justify your illegal acts, by saying that other peoples behavior is worse than mine. That is not acceptable. It reflects negatively upon all hunters.
Only you have the ability to decide if you will follow the "rules" or not. Never mind what other people do...control yourself 1st. That is what a "sportsman" does.
If you don't like "farmed" meat, look for a local farmer that raises his animals organically...or raise it yourself. What would our wildlife populations look like if everyone who ran out of meat, went out and shot more...at any given time of the year?
I know you will not agree with me, as you seem set in your ways.but that is my opinion. Sometimes the "truth" hurts.
It is poaching,it is illegal,but that in itself, doesn't really make all hunters look bad,because the person doing the poaching is a poacher not a hunter.However if that poacher refers to himself a hunter,that makes all hunters look bad,because it gives the public the impression that hunting and poaching may be one and the same.
