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Canadianbiggame

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I know there are alot of people on CGN that know alot more than I do about military rifles, i'm not familiar with pre WWI service rifles.

I received this rifle from my wife's father at Christmas time, Does anyone know what this is or have information.
Anything would help i'm curious to know more about this firearm.

Thanks guys
CBG


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Wish I got one of those for Christmas. Your wife got any sisters looking for a good man... It looks like you are the owner of a Martini Henry Mk III rifle made at BSA in 1883. It is most likely chambered for .577/450 cartridge. I`m sure others can tell you a lot more. Are there any markings on the butt stock?
 
The .577/.450 Martini-Henry round was the most poweful military rifle cartridge in the world when it was introduced in 1871.

It consisted of a .577 Snider casing stretched from 2 inches to 2.34 inches, necked to .45" calibre. It was loaded with a 480-grain bullet and 85 grains of RFG-2 Black powder.

They are a LOT of fun to shoot.

You have a Very Fine Toy and you also have a father-in-law with Taste and Discrimination and with a very definite eye toward investment value.

They are BOTH keepers!
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Martini Brass

Ellwood Epps usually have the Jamison brass & I think so does a few of the other guys who advertise here. I have seen Magtech CBC brass (for sale at gunshows) which is a reformed 24ga shotgun brass.

If you check out the British Militaria Forum, or Gunboards forum & Martini Henry.com you will find a ton of information & can get all the questions you can think of answered.

The Martini Henry is a very historical rifle with many Victorian battles in it's past. Canada brought some from Britain but kept most of them in stores. Include were 5000 Mk.III's around 1885 or so.

A very nice present indeed.

Cheers,
Peter (Burlington, Ontario)


Thanks for all the information guys. Thats quite the round how would you go about getting brass to reload.
 
Just in cas you're interested, there are also some very nice chamber inserts out there so that you can shoot the much cheaper 45 Long Colt pistol cartridges.
 
"...Martini Henry 455..." .577-450.
"...Check out the movie Zulu..." Everybody should do that.
Rummage around here. http://www.martinihenry.com/
"...getting brass to reload..." Shooter's Choice in Waterloo, Ont., lists Bertram .577-450 brass at $159.95 per 20. Dies aren't cheap either.
If you have access to a lathe and the skills to use one, I have a How-to for turning reloadable .577-450 brass out of 3/4" brass bar stock. E-mail me if you want it. toheir@hotmail.com
 
For brass there is Jamieson's and Bertram, although it is gawdawful expensive.

Magtech in Brazil makes 24-gauge brass shotgun shells, 2-1/2 inches in length. These can be annealed and sized down to a .45 in a full-length sizing die, then trimmed to 2.34 inches. The dealer for Magtech in Canada and US is supposed to be Cabela's and they do stock much of the Magtech line of brass shotgun cases.

If you're desperate, you can make up a die, get some Fiocchi plastic 24-bore shells (available as primed empties from the guy who imports Yildiz shoguns), lube them thoroughly with something like Lubriplate 105, dunk the front half in boiling water and then force into your die. It might take a couple of shots to get it right, but it will work.

Lee Precision makes dies for this number, but they are the big monster dies, so you will need their big press that handles the 1-1/8" dies.... or an RCBS Rockchucker or something else with that BIG hole.

MOST Martini-Henry bores are pretty 'generous', one might say. I measured one of mine a short while ago and the BORE measures .456, so a .457" bullet is NOT going to shoot worth a darn. Fortunately, Lee Precision also makes a mould for a HOLLOWBASE .459" slug and this is what I'm trying out next. BTW, Lee also makes a DANDY lube they call 'Liquid Alox'. Very easy to use and it works very well. My 1871 Remington likes it.

You should know that original English-made Kynoch cartridges had an INSERT inside the brass case, from the base up to the shoulder, about 1/16 of an inch thick, made of cardboard and lacquered. The purpose of this insert was to REDUCE the internal capacity of the casing to approximate the original Boxer wrapped-foil cartridges. In this way they could arrive at the light compression which Black powder requires WITHOUT going to a charge of about 120 grains. The Martini likely could handle this kind of charge but it is entirely likely that your shoulder could not. If you end up with casings which do not have an insert of this type, be sure you add a wad of some kind to keep the powder solidly in its place against the primer. Just one of those silly drugstore 'cotton balls' (which aren't balls and are not cotton) should do the job.

Your correct charge is 85 grains of Black powder with a 480-grain bullet. I would think you could get away with FFg or FFFg: the original RFG Number 2 was about halfway between these.

If you want your brass to last MUCH longer and you don't like pouring endless quantities of boiling water down your barrel, you can always load this critter with the old-time standby, SR-4759 powder. This is ALMOST a Bulk powder, but not quite: there are NO true Bulk powders still in production. This is a very bulkY powder which you can use at 38-percent-of-Black-by-weight and get good, consistent igntion, excellent accuracy and a cean barrel with. For your rifle, the charge would be THIRTY-TWO-POINT-THREE grains by WEIGHT, NO MORE. This should give Black-powder performance and pressures both in your rifle. It should be available anywhere that stocks the IMR line of powders. The designation 'SR' stands for SPORTING RIFLE. This powder replaced the old DuPont Bulk in 1941 and has been out f production more times than you can count, but it always keeps coming back because it is NEEDED for rifles such as yours.

Hope some of this helps.
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nice


I got my brass fromteh states but they won't ship anymore

I talked to Mysticplayer, click on the mystic precision dealer link and jerry told me he can get in the jamison brass, its not cheap but its great brass

then I worked up a smokless powder load for my MH

38grains of IMR4227 with a sheet of toilet paper on top to fill the case then I use a 405grain cast bullet with gascheck (sold as a 45-70 bullet) Its a little small .458" and my MH is .461" bore but they work. Averaging 1560Fps, but you will have to work up your own loads.

Many here will poo poo the use of smokeless in a Black Powder rifle but I'm ok with it. :D

they are a lot of fun to shoot and leave big holes in the paper, just keep an eye on where you brass goes they are expensive.
 
$ for MH

At gunshows (in Ontario) over the last couple of months I have seen a few Mk.III's anywhere from $700-$850, I dont know what they actually sold for.
Peter (Burlington)


Ho much do you think this gun would be worth, I have a new baby on the way and could use some extra money.
Thanks guys.
 
Add to that, you will have to anneal the case necks after two or three firings, otherwise you can get cracked case necks. Dies are EXPENSIVE. While the rifle may be listed as .45 calibre, bore diameters can run from .459 to .461 or more.
The good old days, a friend in the U.K. was in the business of making the brass and cases from him were around $1.60 plus shipping. He retired a few years ago, sold the business, and nobody else was able to make a go of it even though he set up the machinery for the new owners,

The original round for the Martini was a straight case, but it was found too long to fit the reciever. Instead of shortening the case, they bottle necked it, thereby causing a lot of grief for folks who want to shoot the rifles today!:eek:
 
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