Opinions on a muzzle brake

One for Guntech, I have the same looking brake you say you install (is it a gentry?) I assume its R/H thread, how do I take it off (a rod in one of the holes?)? and how much torque do you put on them reinstalling them?
Thanks

And one for bearkilr, I have a brake on my rifle, it shoots more acurately now (doesn't matter why-this is fact). As the brake is now part of my rifle (threaded on, like all the other parts) how do you figure my rifle didn't become more acurate?

And as a parting shot, flinching can happen in very few rounds. My personal best (worst) was on the third shot of a new rifle (not mine-a light weight 700 in 300wsm), that thing was damned painfull to touch off. As such it negatively affects anyone shooting it almost imediately and lowers their concerns for acuracy by being more concerned with the impending violence they are about to endure.
 
I really dislike muzzle brakes. A properly designed and fitted stock with a limbsaver pad will greatly reduce felt recoil. Everyone has a different tolerance to recoil, but imo a well set up .300 win mag weighing ~8-9lbs should be quite shootable for most folks.

The other thing to consider is that a .30-06 is just as effective at normal range and will have significantly less recoil. In fact a .280 Rem or a .270 Win is perfectly fine for moose/elk/sheep/deer and they will have even less recoil than a .30-06
 
RUPZUK said:
One for Guntech, I have the same looking brake you say you install (is it a gentry?) I assume its R/H thread, how do I take it off (a rod in one of the holes?)? and how much torque do you put on them reinstalling them?
Thanks
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The threads are lubricated with Never - Seize. This protects the threads from carbon and adds strength to the joint.

I hold the butt stock between my feet and use a short steel punch in a hole and snug it up...

I made this brake design from scratch many years ago, copying the KDF but angling the holes slightly forward. A few years ago I found a blank (Shrewd) that was very close to what I was making and I now use them and alter them slightly to what I want.
 
I can't tell you why it works just that it does.

It seems to me as though the rifle platform becomes overwhelmed by torque and whatever other forces and ceases to function smoothly under recoil.
Consistency goes out the window with one shot will jumping off the bags one way and the next the other. Shooting prone I get quite a few 12:00 (uncalled) high shots.
Add the brake and consistency is immediately improved.

I can shoot sub 1 inch groups with a 416 so shooter perceived recoil is not the issue here.
FWIW I have seen the same effect (loss of overall accuracy) by reducing rifle weight.

Don't get me wrong most guys I see at the range can't shoot near as well as my 338Edge without the brake.
With the brake it shoots more like a varmint rifle.
 
I doubt the brake would make a rifle clamped in a solid vice any more accurate but off a bag and especially off a bipod you bet. Try shooting any rifle with recoil rested on a hard surface and itll jump all over the place, reduce recoil and I'll move around less, the sane thing happens to a degree of bags even. Less recoil = less jumping around, also poor shooting position consistency will have less effect. The bottom line is being braked can afford more shooter error. I know someones gonna call me out for that but in my opinion that's the case. I'll exagerate some but think about these examples... We all know consistency is key right so we know we always want the same shoulder weld, if you pull tight one shot and loose the next there will be a shift in impact, well imagine there was absolutley zero recoil... It wouldn't matter. How about using rear bags, we know never out the bag immediatley behind the sling stud because as it recoils it'll lift the but of the rifle.... With no recoil, it wouldn't matter. Shooting with the bipod on a hard surface makes guns jump randomly and wildly..... With zero recoil, no jump. Now obviously we can't eliminate recoil but less is a step closer to none.

Wasn't there a brake on the market that you could simply turn on and off, it turned to block the ports? Was it any good? If it was decent then wouldn't this be the cats ass? Practice braked, hunt unbraked.. Without removing it there's no change in harmonics.
 
bearkilr said:
Splatter said:
bearkilr said:
I would tend to think it is more difficult to vent gases evenly out of a dozen or so small holes, than it is for venting out of a crowned bbl. which would push a bullet after leaving the bore, but that's just my opinion.
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Which, to be fair, is an opinion completely without practical experience, let alone the extensive experience that some of the posters here have with braked rifles.
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Yup, I agree. It's as valid as your opinion.
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Nope. I currently have 2 braked rifles, and have had brakes installed on 2 more that I no longer have. And I have observed the accuracy increase first hand.
My opinion about flying fighter-jets (which I have no experience in) is as valid as your muzzle brake opinion, because each are backed with near-zero experience.
 
1899 said:
I really dislike muzzle brakes. A properly designed and fitted stock with a limbsaver pad will greatly reduce felt recoil. Everyone has a different tolerance to recoil, but imo a well set up .300 win mag weighing ~8-9lbs should be quite shootable for most folks.

The other thing to consider is that a .30-06 is just as effective at normal range and will have significantly less recoil. In fact a .280 Rem or a .270 Win is perfectly fine for moose/elk/sheep/deer and they will have even less recoil than a .30-06
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Some good points there 1899.
I agree most shooters are far better off with a 270.280/30-06.

I happen to enjoy shooting high powered and big bore rifles.
I shoot them a lot.

Problem with something like a fairly light 338Edge is it isn't much fun to send 50 or more rounds down range...Lots of guys own big cannons, but most just will not shoot them in practice and then take them out in hunting season hoping to shoot well with them....Not going to happen is it?

Trying to shoot that many rounds from a high powered rifle in the prone position at a target significant distance away creates a too much psychological trauma and is the perfect recipe for a flinch.
For me the brake solves those issues.

No, you do not need a brake on a 300Win. On the other hand, if you want to shoot 100 rounds in a day out in the field it makes the experience a lot more enjoyable.

Though I never hunt with a brake a guy certainly could.
If you hunt in groups IMHO the brake needs to come off.
I've seen the pain induced by a braked rifle going off beside another hunter....No thanks.
 
fuzzynuts54 said:
I doubt the brake would make a rifle clamped in a solid vice any more accurate but off a bag and especially off a bipod you bet.
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Actually, I saw an experiment where Bruce Baer clamped one of his 60 pound heavy benchrest rifles into place and accuracy when to crap!

There is still a lot we do not fully understand about rifle accuracy.
 
guntech said:
The part of a bullet that is the most important part in accuracy is the base of the bullet... the tiniest flaw, one that you will not be able to see, will be detrimental to accuracy. It is the last thing affected by gases when it exits the barrel.

If the exiting gases can be reduced by accurate dispersion as the bullet begins it's free flight when it exits the barrel, there is less chance the bullet will be adversely affected.

Less recoil does increase the accuracy of a rifle. It recoils more uniformly and with less violence.
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OK, you're just reiterating what I stated before, I'm aware of this, but gas dispersion has nothing to do with a brake, it's the crown.

In regard to brakes you're saying an unbraked rifle recoils differently each time you fire, whereas a braked one recoils more uniformly? Why?
 
Splatter said:
Nope. I currently have 2 braked rifles, and have had brakes installed on 2 more that I no longer have. And I have observed the accuracy increase first hand.
My opinion about flying fighter-jets (which I have no experience in) is as valid as your muzzle brake opinion, because each are backed with near-zero experience.
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Your opinion is without any type of explanation......"It just does" won't cut it.
If you have 2 braked guns, I'm happy for you, but it doesn't mean you have the knowledge to explain why accuracy would increase.
 
A brake does control gas dispersion, the gas being bled off from behind the bullet in a controlled manner. It is the gas dispersion that makes a brake work.
Brakes can be very useful on a variety of firearms. I use one on the .223 rifle I use for Service Rifle target competition. The brake has a great benefit in rapid fire strings and multiple tap snapshooting.
 
tiriaq said:
A brake does control gas dispersion, the gas being bled off from behind the bullet in a controlled manner. It is the gas dispersion that makes a brake work.
Brakes can be very useful on a variety of firearms. I use one on the .223 rifle I use for Service Rifle target competition. The brake has a great benefit in rapid fire strings and multiple tap snapshooting.
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True, but this happens after it leaves the muzzle on a brake, which would then have no effect on accuracy. Instead of all gases venting straight out, they are redirected to all sides, and sometimes backward, depending on the angle cut of the holes.

Regardless, I don't want to hijack this thread. I think it's accurate to say that effective muzzle brakes only do two proven things consistently, and that is decrease recoil and increase noise. No one can argue with that.
 
Muzzle Brakes

I have recently become a believer in muzzle brakes, at least for longer range target shooting. Last summer I took a week long rifle course at the Milcun training facility in Haliburton Ontario. We were told to bring 500 rounds of match grade ammo. We shot prone from 100-600 yards. All rifles were bolt actions. While my Ruger 77 heavy barrel was the only 223, I did have a chance to try the braked 308's. I was impressed with the reduction in recoil and will install a brake on a larger calibre in the future. Obviously we were all wearing hearing protection, generally electronic but often with additional ear plugs. The recoil reduction enabled better 100 round shooting per day and equally important, allowed more accurate "calling of the shots". With my hearing protection, I did not find the noise/blast from the adjacent shooters objectionable. The gunsmith/instructor recommended the Holland brake. I agree with those who first install an after market recoil pad as the first step before considering a brake. For load development for a hunting rifle, I favour a Lead Sled.
 
bearkilr said:
OK, you're just reiterating what I stated before, I'm aware of this, but gas dispersion has nothing to do with a brake, it's the crown.

In regard to brakes you're saying an unbraked rifle recoils differently each time you fire, whereas a braked one recoils more uniformly? Why?
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I can't help your perception of recoiling forces and how they affect accuracy. It has been explained by myself and others.

Perhaps you would like to explain why you think a brake has nothing to do with gas dispersion.
 
brakes

IMHO a brake can cause as much of an issue with the severe muzzle blast, and the major reason I don't have one.


If you are worried about recoil the suggestions presented (e.g. recoil pad etc) are all good ones.
 
guntech said:
I can't help your perception of recoiling forces and how they affect accuracy. It has been explained by myself and others.

Perhaps you would like to explain why you think a brake has nothing to do with gas dispersion.
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No one has or can explain why a muzzle brake would increase the accuracy of the firearm itself. I'm not talking about increased accuracy achieved due to recoil reduction, I'm referring to an increase in accuracy of the actual firearm, much the same as a bedding job would do.

I have explained what I believe is the way a brake functions, which is through dispersing gases at an angle, and not directly away/infront of the rifle like a regular muzzle. Again, what no one has explained is; why would the way a brake disperses gases increase accuracy?

I'll put it in simple terms:
Using the same rifle, why would the accuracy be increased after the installation of a brake? If you can explain this, I'll rest my case. :)
 
After painfully reading the past 8 pages there seems to be much misconception about muzzle brakes
1) A muzzle brake does not increase a rifles accuracy potential. In fact depending on design a brake can be determental to accuracy
2) Installation of a muzzle brake will affect barrel harmonics and you may need to develope a new load for the particular rifle
3) Muzzle brakes do reduce felt recoil of a rifle. Brake design will influence recoil reduction potential
4) A rifles accuracy potential "on target" is directly related to shooter ability. Stress, fatigue etc. directly influence a shooters accuracy potential (thereby the precieved rifles accuracy potential). Muzzle brakes effectively reduce recoil thereby reducing stress which enhances shooter ability producing concistancy which equates to better accuracy.
5) There is no free lunch. The corresponding reduction in recoil as a result of installing a muzzle brake is offset by an increase in noise levels.
This is not rocket science so why treat it as such
Some folks don't like noise, some folks want consistancy in firing long strings, some are sensitive to recoil...pick your poison
 
With my hearing protection, I did not find the noise/blast from the adjacent shooters objectionable.
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Obviously we were all wearing hearing protection, generally electronic but often with additional ear plugs.
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With both plugs and muffs,I would certainly hope that the noise wasn't objectionable.The fact that people often wore both plugs and muffs,indicates to me that they feel that brakes are loud enough to warrant those precautions.
 
I like the fact that it reduces muzzle jump..works very well for seeing your hits. It also makes target acquisition a lot easier, I realize for some who shoot 20 rounds a year..it wouldn't be beneficial but to others..its a god send.
Shooting is a mental game..if you take some of the recoil.. "felt recoil" it is beneficial, on concentrating on the cross-hairs and target.
No brake on hard recoiling rifles is like slapping a dog every time you come home from work..first thing.. he will develop a flinch, sooner or later he is going to bite you.

Each to their own if you like them or not.
 
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