I didn't see anywhere where a claim was made that the brake makes the rifle itself more accurate, I would imagine that the chance in barrel harmonics may allow it to respond better with a particular load it didn't like before but it also may not like a load that it did before, so I wouldn't really say it made the rifle more accurate. A rifle doesn't shoot on it's own, you have to view the rifle and shooter as a package, if reducing recoil reduces flinching/muzzle jump/and shooter induced error, then the brake has performed as intended. What more can you ask?
Opinions on a muzzle brake
- Thread starter knightcc
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A well designed brake can be quite effective in the right application. Even more-so with the current trend of lightweight magnum rifles. If your like 95% of the deer hunters who fire less than a box of cartridges through your "Remchester WhizMag" annually, I can't see the benefit. If your shooting some volume through said rifle as in load development, practice etc. your body will thank you for the brake.
Now if you find yourself with a Muzzle-break" well then you have problems and should see a gunsmith
Now if you find yourself with a Muzzle-break" well then you have problems and should see a gunsmith
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Your belief that gases have no effect on accuracy after the bullet leaves the muzzle is incorrect...
For a short distance the bullet is still affected by the gases exiting the barrel... if these gases can be reduced by accurate diffusion through a brake, they will influence the bullet less... and that can result in better accuracy.
The part of a bullet that is the most important part in accuracy is the base of the bullet... the tiniest flaw, one that you will not be able to see, will be detrimental to accuracy. It is the last thing affected by gases after it exits the barrel.
FWIW during load development my 338Edge wears a Jewel trigger (set at 4oz) and a 8-32xX56 Nightforce (the rifle has a picatinny rail so the switch is easy).
I go to a lot of pains to set up the bags so I can dry fire the rifle without that 32X crosshair moving on target.
Not an easy thing to do with a hunting rifle BTW.
I can not adjust my load to tune back the accuracy I loose when the brake is off...Not even close.
It is NOT a barrel harmonic thing otherwise I would be able to get some (if not all) of the accuracy back through tuning.
I go to a lot of pains to set up the bags so I can dry fire the rifle without that 32X crosshair moving on target.
Not an easy thing to do with a hunting rifle BTW.
I can not adjust my load to tune back the accuracy I loose when the brake is off...Not even close.
It is NOT a barrel harmonic thing otherwise I would be able to get some (if not all) of the accuracy back through tuning.
Ok, so you base this on how many rifles/barrels that you have personal experience with?
Proving that a brake increases the accuracy of a rifle would be very difficult.You would need to take several rifles,clamp each in a gun vice to remove all human error,then shoot them all with the most accurate load for that gun with the brake.Then you would have to repeat the process,with the same gun without the brake,with loads developed without the brake.So far,I have not seen the results of any such test.
bearkilr
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bearkilr
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So basically what you're saying is that muzzle brakes are better at achieving accurate gas dispersion than, let's say, a target crown, therefore achieving superior accuracy ? That's a pretty tall order and a claim I don't believe any brake manufacturer/installer has ever made. If I'm wrong, please post a link to the manufacturer or gunsmith. Sounds to me like ##### growth pills.
I'm well aware of the bullet base scenario, as I posted earlier about this, but we're talking brakes here.
bearkilr
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100% accurate post in my books.
I think you're over thinking this. To prove that a particular brake/installation makes a particular rifle more accurate would require that one work-up the best loads they can for the unbraked rifle, then the best loads they can for the braked rifle, then compare the groups sizes.
Why would you even want to remove the "human factor" from the accuracy equation? Do you regularly hunt with your rifle in some sort of vise?
I have read that the "Ransom Rest" accuracy of the usual Ruger .22 pistol is actually as good, if not slightly better than the Walther GSP. And yet, no one shoots a Ruger at the Olympics, think about why that might be.
You don't seem to be able to grasp the gist of what I am stating... or you ignore it... or you don't agree... that's okay...
First you have to accept the gases influence the bullet after it has exited the barrel.
Then you have to accept that if you reduce the force of the gases on the bullet after it has left the barrel, you reduce the negative effect the gases may have on the bullet.
If you don't you don't.
But I do...
It doesn't really matter...
I don't know of any brake manufacturer who states the brake will reduce accuracy. Maybe you can post a link.
Or maybe we can just agree to disagree, that's okay too. You go with your experience and I'll go with mine.
bearkilr
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Well if you read that, then it must be true.
A claim was made that a brake increases a rifles accuracy. I'm just discussing and trying to figure out how this is possible.
bearkilr
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I don't know of any brake manufacturer that would admit to decreased accuracy, if they did they're probably no longer in business.
I understand full well what you're saying. Let's just agree to disagree.
If the intent is to prove whether or not a brake will increase the accuracy of the rifle itself,you need to remove the human factor.If the shooter has a flinch that goes away with the brake,it may be the shooter that improves with a brake installed,not the rifle.The only way to be sure,is to remove the human factor.
Could it be that at the Olympics,they want the competition to be between the shooters,and not the guns?
Bearkilr I just don't get your oppsition against brakes. You quoted guntech to correct me, in that quote he does not specifically state that the brake makes the rifle more accurate, he is stating that the average hunter will likely see better accuracy with his lightweight hunting rifle and I agree 100%. A rifle that recoils less has less shooter error induces into the bullets path.
I would argue that a brake is even more valuable for accuracy for low volume shooters than it is to competetive shooters for the simple fact that the "professional" shooter is much more aware of the reqirements of consistent body English, cheek weld, shoulder pressure, grip pressure, breathing and heart beats. I feel the "professional" shooters accuracy is less affected by recoil. On the other side the low volume shooter may not get a feel for consistency and the recoil wil exagerate the flaws in thier shooting technique.
I personally don't belive the brake actually makes the gun more accurate via gas dispersion. There is a crown behind that brake that effects the bullet immediatley as it exits the barrel and enters the brake, I belive by te time the base of that bullet has exited the rifle barrel .0001" it's path is already determined. The brake sure makes a damn good crown protector though.
I would argue that a brake is even more valuable for accuracy for low volume shooters than it is to competetive shooters for the simple fact that the "professional" shooter is much more aware of the reqirements of consistent body English, cheek weld, shoulder pressure, grip pressure, breathing and heart beats. I feel the "professional" shooters accuracy is less affected by recoil. On the other side the low volume shooter may not get a feel for consistency and the recoil wil exagerate the flaws in thier shooting technique.
I personally don't belive the brake actually makes the gun more accurate via gas dispersion. There is a crown behind that brake that effects the bullet immediatley as it exits the barrel and enters the brake, I belive by te time the base of that bullet has exited the rifle barrel .0001" it's path is already determined. The brake sure makes a damn good crown protector though.
We are talking about managing a heavy recoiling and high powered hunting rifle, not a big heavy target rifle with a little 6ppc or whatever target chamber.
Even then the guys that shoot 1000 yard light rifle bench rest (17 pound) in high wind (7/300WSM, 300Win, 308Baer) all use brakes when they are legal.
They do this to stop gun jump, torque and roll....I don't know how to say it any plainer.
Maybe I can't explain it well, but I can see it, I can feel it, and I can see the result on paper.
http://www.baercustomrifles.com/
Notice how all his light rifles have brakes?
Bruce Baer is the dean of this stuff...Phone him and ask him yourself. 717-349-4077
The same applies to a high powered hunting rifle.
You don't have to like brakes for them to work.
They just do.
bearkilr
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Not every hunter will see better accuracy with a braked gun. Those who are recoil sensitive may, but this will not be due to an increase in accuracy of the actual rifle.
I have nothing against anyone wanting a muzzle brake, but there are some posts in this thread eluding to the fact they may make the gun more accurate and there is little to no increase in noise level to the shooter. This is simply not true.
I have shot enough braked guns of others to know that the noise level is generally increased sharply, the very reason that those posting who are proponents of brakes have stated that they always wear hearing protection.
And Guntech has stated that a brake may increase accuracy as well there is little increase in noise in certain situations:
I don't know of any brake manufacturer who states the brake will reduce accuracy. Maybe you can post a link.
Here is a link
ht tp://www.rvbprecision.com/shooting/adventures-with-muzzle-brakes.html#ixzz1AwPQNwoT
a bit dated but still holds true today
Here is a link
ht tp://www.rvbprecision.com/shooting/adventures-with-muzzle-brakes.html#ixzz1AwPQNwoT
a bit dated but still holds true today
bearkilr
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- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
I know how brakes function and what their purpose is. None of the above info you submitted proves in any way that a brake will increase the rifle's accuracy.
Would you like me to call Bruce Baer and ask him if his guns are less accurate without a brake?
