Canadian Made Swiss Arms AR Lower

North Eastern Arms said:
For the civilian market, you might be right. But for mil/leo market, what you propose is another layer of difficulty, another item to be installed by an armorer etc......... The only time the stock is folded is during travel and storage........
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I suppose you are right, in that it is one more piece to add to the weapon, but no operator will be wrenching his own AR buffer tube off and on anyway. Kind of a weak argument against retaining the folding capability.

North Eastern Arms said:
One of the tac teams that will be testing our lower said that the current length of pull forces them to kick doors with the stock folded because armor makes the length of pull to long for all but the 6'+ monsters on the team.
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I agree that the standard stock IS too long when wearing armor, BUT with the adapter/standard style lower they could install whatever AR stock suits their needs OR units that may already have the expensive Swiss collapsing stock can simply keep it.

North Eastern Arms said:
try locking the stock closed.
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You don't need to lock the stock closed!...you said it yourself, this feature is used for storage and transport. Only in emergencies would you need to shoot with the stock folded.

I guess, all I'm trying to say is that you originally started this thread looking for input on the design of your lower, a number of people voiced opinions regarding being able to use their original Swiss stocks, and you opted to go a different way (which is fine, cause it's your business), but why would you ever want to limit your market? Personally I would be trying to get every last customer going! Instead you loose some customers right off of the get go in the design.

Now, I get that you potentially have some "high speed" euro mil/le users lined up, but I just can't wrap my head around deliberately designing features out of a rifle, when there is a simple solution that would get everyone on board.
 
angryeyebrows said:
Personally I would be trying to get every last customer going! Instead you loose some customers right off of the get go in the design.

Now, I get that you potentially have some "high speed" euro mil/le users lined up, but I just can't wrap my head around deliberately designing features out of a rifle, when there is a simple solution that would get everyone on board.
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If you were a manufacturer and had to tailor your design off the needs of the "sport shooting" community or the "LEO" community, which would you choose?

I too understand the reasoning why people like folders.. transport is the only real advantage. The swiss is two parts held together with two pins.. pull and separate if "THAT" is the limiting factor in your decision.

If you still need a folder.. there are AR folding adapters for the various .22lr AR's that you can get to fill that issue. They also lock closed.


angryeyebrows said:
Why did you sledge hammer one? Was that some kind of test? :eek:
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A pre production version NEA passed along to look at for testing. There was a change to the design made.. the original was rendered "obsolete" rather paying postage on scrap. It also ensures that the manufacturer doesn't have to worry about unauthorized pieces in the market. ;)
 
angryeyebrows said:
Now, I get that you potentially have some "high speed" euro mil/le users lined up, but I just can't wrap my head around deliberately designing features out of a rifle, when there is a simple solution that would get everyone on board.
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its not worth it. It would require a 2nd tool up as the machining on tail would require the billet to be held in a different manner to hit.
 
North Eastern Arms said:
The Swiss disagree, i spent an hour with the VP of sales. We are in talks to supply them our model. They loved it, and said so.

I took several meetings with SF groups who all said the same thing. They want AR stocks and mags on their guns.
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You've said this a couple of times now. Any proof to back up your claims?
 
Many elements use EMAG's in their Hk416's... Several want the USGI option, as a drop in mag is superior to a rock in mag.

I know that the major knocks to the Sig platform in some recent trial have been the non STANAG magwell.


I have not yet been able to get permission to post pics of the M4 type lower we built serveral years ago for an entities Sig552's
 
KevinB said:
Many elements use EMAG's in their Hk416's... Several want the USGI option, as a drop in mag is superior to a rock in mag.

I know that the major knocks to the Sig platform in some recent trial have been the non STANAG magwell.


I have not yet been able to get permission to post pics of the M4 type lower we built serveral years ago for an entities Sig552's
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Very anxious to see what KAC's take on the Swiss lower is. If it's like any of the other products, I'm sure that unit was very pleased.
 
kevinb said:
many elements use emag's in their hk416's... Several want the usgi option, as a drop in mag is superior to a rock in mag.

I know that the major knocks to the sig platform in some recent trial have been the non stanag magwell.


I have not yet been able to get permission to post pics of the m4 type lower we built serveral years ago for an entities sig552's
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us navy?
 
I can understand the benefit of the proliferation of USGI/STANAG mags...I just fail to see the superiority of them. Sure, they are easier and quicker to use (at least initially) but I shake my head at why anyone would find them superior in performance. Anyhow, way of the world...moving on.
 
I agree with Beltfed to a point, but the new Magpul E Mags are pretty good. Almost as good as Swiss Arms / G36 mags. And they are thinner, but no built in clamping feature.

Rich
 
beltfed said:
I can understand the benefit of the proliferation of USGI/STANAG mags...I just fail to see the superiority of them. Sure, they are easier and quicker to use (at least initially) but I shake my head at why anyone would find them superior in performance. Anyhow, way of the world...moving on.
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Ever heard of the volkswagon bug? wasn't a mercedes was it? still got folks to work.

Take a course or two in cost management, and you might lose the head wobble. I highly doubt the swiss mags will save a life in a firefight in a situation where a stanag wouldn't. Would be nice if you could stop and think for a minute, rather than needing to be spoon fed. Sheesh.
 
Rich LPS said:
I agree with Beltfed to a point, but the new Magpul E Mags are pretty good. Almost as good as Swiss Arms / G36 mags. And they are thinner, but no built in clamping feature.

Rich
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Rich, that clamping feature could very easily be adapted to the stanag mags if someone were so inclined, its a great feature.
 
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The perfect Emag, with clamps.

By the way...the USGI M16 / AR15 mag has a built in design flaw...not the best or most reliable mags in the world (not terrible, pretty good). The Magpul mags (and a few other new designs like Lancer) are a great correction in the design aimed at helping this and reliability. Do your home work before spouting off about the USGI AR mags.....

Many gun companies made their own mags due to this fact. They couldn't live with the flaws in the M16 mags. Examples, the AUG, G36 and of course Swiss Arms (this was of course all pre - Magpul times).

Rich
 
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