How much fps, weight or diameter does it take to make a difference?
- Thread starter bcsteve
- Start date
I am not the least concerned what the differences are...
I shoot what I feel works for me on a given day for a given game animal that I may encounter I have rifle/cartridge/load combos for all distances/terrains my personal max distances depending on the combo I have with me at the time is anywhere from 50 to 500 yards.
I shoot what I feel works for me on a given day for a given game animal that I may encounter I have rifle/cartridge/load combos for all distances/terrains my personal max distances depending on the combo I have with me at the time is anywhere from 50 to 500 yards.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Not really sure, I shoot 225gr Partitions in my 358 Win, it dropped a big 5x5 whitetail on the spot last fall. I shoot 250's in my Whelen. I don't own a 358 Norma (YET!!!). I just like how a bigger diameter bullet seems to drop an animal on the spot most of the time.
That being said I also dropped a big mule deer buck on the spot with my 30/06 and a 180gr bullet @ 200yds too last fall.
Bullet placement is key too.
Dropped a bull moose on the spot with my .444 Marlin and 300gr Speers too, so I am sold on Big Bullets
I practice lots and feel ultra confident shooting bigger bores and have faith in them.
That's part of the the flip-side to the argument. I would never use factory loads in my .30-06 so I wouldn't care to know how they compared. And since I have a .30-06 that will do everything that .308 can do and then some, I have no reason to need a .308 so handloading results woul be of little concern to me. As far as the action being an inch shorter and barrel being two inches shorter on the .308, I could always step back three inches if it was an issue, and as far as the gun being lighter, I guess I could always just jog an extra 5 minutes a day if it bothered me.
What would make the biggest difference on game?
1- Bullet diameter: Going from a .264 Win Mag to a 7mm Rem Mag to a .300 Win Mag to a .338 Win Mag.
2- Velocity: Going from a .308 Win to a .30-06 to a .300 Win Mag to a .300 Ultra Mag.
3- Bullet weight: .30-06 going from a 125gr to 150gr to 180gr to 200gr and 220gr.
At what point in those increases do you start to see a difference from the first one mentioned?
1- Bullet diameter: Going from a .264 Win Mag to a 7mm Rem Mag to a .300 Win Mag to a .338 Win Mag.
2- Velocity: Going from a .308 Win to a .30-06 to a .300 Win Mag to a .300 Ultra Mag.
3- Bullet weight: .30-06 going from a 125gr to 150gr to 180gr to 200gr and 220gr.
At what point in those increases do you start to see a difference from the first one mentioned?
Sure he was right alot, but people seem to pick and chose what they want to remember. When I want to be critical I'll remember him saying that the 30-06 wasn't much good and the .270 was a "damn fine coyote gun". Get real.
When I want to agree with him I'll remember that he did about as much as anyone to get the .44 Mag going.( psssssss.........made a .44 special go faster)
Somewhere along the way he and a few buddies shortened up a H&H case and shoved British .333 bullets into it. They called it the .334 OKH but they could have called it the ".333 go-faster". When that blew up the bullets of the day he seemed curiously unconcerned, but apparantly it was a big deal when he was trying texas heartshots on elk with a 30-06.
For all the big wildcats he was associated with, I'm not aware of one that did anything slower.
How about when he observed that cold weather was takeing 100 yards off his loads? Speed seemed to matter then, but then again, speed always mattered to him.
Then I can dig up the articles where he stated to the world that after 30 years of guideing that the various .300 mags were the best all round North American big game cartridge. Hmmmmm, not going to get much argument from me, but how did he get elected as the patron saint of the 45/70 crowd? Seems to me, they weren't paying attention.
Then there was the "efficiency my ass, I'm interested in results'" comment. Again, no argument from me.
I'm OK with his preference for the middle bores and up, but the guy spent most of his life makeing things go faster. I wonder why?
What would make the biggest difference on game?
1- Bullet diameter: Going from a .264 Win Mag to a 7mm Rem Mag to a .300 Win Mag to a .338 Win Mag.
2- Velocity: Going from a .308 Win to a .30-06 to a .300 Win Mag to a .300 Ultra Mag.
3- Bullet weight: .30-06 going from a 125gr to 150gr to 180gr to 200gr and 220gr.
At what point in those increases do you start to see a difference from the first one mentioned?
Depends on the game you are hunting.
I always use deer as an example as I believe there are far more deer hunters in Canada than any other animal. So on deer, there won't be a damned difference in any of those factors. They will die every time if shot properly.
If you shoot it in the ass, then it doesn't matter what you are using anyway.
Well I agree, deer are easy to kill and not much of a challenge for any cartridge. I'm thinking more bigger game like elk, moose and grizzly.
Or to make it easier, at what point do you feel you've gone up in killing power?
At the top of my head without thiking too much, I would say (given same bullet construction) that going up by 200fps, 25gr in bullet weight or two calibers, I would feel that I've gone up in killing power. Would it change the result on the animal? Maybe not.
Or to make it easier, at what point do you feel you've gone up in killing power?
At the top of my head without thiking too much, I would say (given same bullet construction) that going up by 200fps, 25gr in bullet weight or two calibers, I would feel that I've gone up in killing power. Would it change the result on the animal? Maybe not.
Elk and moose will die by a .308 with 150-180 gr bullets. Just don't shoot them in the guts. I have only shot 2 bull moose, one was with a .338WM and a 225TSX at 275yds. The other was a .308 with 165gr Interbond at 290 yds.
I still cannot decide which one died better, faster, or tastier.
Grizzly hunting is something that few will ever do, as there is only BC and Yukon to hunt them in , and something I know I will never have the opportunity to do.
Some will say grizzly defence blah, blah, but that has nothing to do with hunting griz...
What would make the biggest difference on game?
1- Bullet diameter: Going from a .264 Win Mag to a 7mm Rem Mag to a .300 Win Mag to a .338 Win Mag.
2- Velocity: Going from a .308 Win to a .30-06 to a .300 Win Mag to a .300 Ultra Mag.
3- Bullet weight: .30-06 going from a 125gr to 150gr to 180gr to 200gr and 220gr.
At what point in those increases do you start to see a difference from the first one mentioned?
Shot placement and bullet construction.
In Jck O'Connor's later years of writing, he wrote of how many hundreds of big game animals he had shot, or seen shot, with the 7 x 57.
He further stated the many hundreds of big game animals he had shot, or seen shot, with the Remington 7mm Magnum.
He then said that he could not see any difference in the animals hit, whether they had been hit with the 7 x 57, or whether they had been hit with the 7mm Magnum.
I think this is along the lines of what Steve had in mind in his original post.
He further stated the many hundreds of big game animals he had shot, or seen shot, with the Remington 7mm Magnum.
He then said that he could not see any difference in the animals hit, whether they had been hit with the 7 x 57, or whether they had been hit with the 7mm Magnum.
I think this is along the lines of what Steve had in mind in his original post.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Thinking back to some of the results I've seen in our hunting camps over the years, and on a fairly regular basis on a number of Moose and a few Elk, there has been a definate item of note. The most damage shown by the amount of blood shot meat was on animals shot with the 7mm Mag.
tylerjwitty
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northern Ontario
every fps and every grain that is increased i gain killing power PERIOD
I love this thread.
Trying align to one persons theory with another's experience is always good for a laugh.
As to the original post,my experience with animals bigger than deer is pretty small but
I think going from .270 to .338 would be a small increase in killing power and a noticeable
increase in the ability to to leave body parts on the ground.
But I've only shot small animals with the .338 and the big ones with the 30 and 270 calibres.
Trying align to one persons theory with another's experience is always good for a laugh.
As to the original post,my experience with animals bigger than deer is pretty small but
I think going from .270 to .338 would be a small increase in killing power and a noticeable
increase in the ability to to leave body parts on the ground.
But I've only shot small animals with the .338 and the big ones with the 30 and 270 calibres.
Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
FINALLY. Thank you. I was getting nauseated reading through some of this thread. If we're talking about exterior ballistics, then BC becomes very significatn, but when it comes to killing (terminal performance), here's my list:
1. Shot placement
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2. Bullet construction
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3. Velocity
4. SD
5. Weight
5. Caliber
6. RPM's
This is good. I reload and hunt with both a 7X57 and a 7mm mag. I use the program "Pointblank" to plot trajectory...etc.
I load both right now with 140 grain Accubonds and IMR 4350.
The 7X57 has a muzzle velocity of 2745 fsp
The 7mm mag has a muzzle velocity of 3100 fps.
On a graph the only real difference is the mag is a bit flatter but really is it a really huge difference...I don't think so.
This past season I shot a mule deer with the mag at 165 yrds and a whitetail with the 7X57 at about 75 yrds. Both drop dead animals. Any real difference ? Again I would say no.
Maybe if I loaded with a 160grain or 175 grain bullet things would be different as the mag would push the heavier bullet out faster and flater but again I would to try it and plot the trajectories to really figure it out.
Lots of fun though.
troutseeker
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Prince George, BC
Shot placement above all, the rest does not really matter...
Exactly what I'm talking about.
I agree 100% but it doesn't make for a very interesting discussion
. If FPS, caliber and bullet weight doesn't matter, how come everybody is not hunting everything from deer to grizzly witht a .243 Win and 100gr cup and core. Obviously some people feel they need something bigger.O'Connor always seemed to mention modern handloads whenever he brought up the 7 by 57. Why do you suppose he turned up the heat on it? Couldn't be that speed thing could it?
There's a whole lot of velocity fantasy in some 7 Rem Mag loads. Many of them won't out-run a 30-06.
