DPMS vs Norinco CQ

misanthropist said:
It's a bit irrelevant in Canada seeing as 99% of us own range toys and nothing more, but if you're interested in quality for quality's sake, say, or you have one reason or another to want a gun that will not let you down, then a good starting point is the US TDP for the M4. It specifies a whole bunch of requirements for any rifles built for service, and meeting or exceeding the TDP is a condition of their contracts.

So using the TDP, you can evaluate commercial rifles as well, if you like.

DPMS deviates about as far from the TDP as any commercial manufacturer (using cheaper components in all cases). I have heard horror stories about two other manufacturers building worse rifles than DPMS, but I have no experience with either of them and I would guess very few Canadians would ever run across either of them. So for our purposes, describing DPMS as the bottom of the barrel is probably effectively true if not strictly accurate.
Click to expand...

i was just gonna say that :p but if you want a cheap gun thats still american made i guess you could go the DPMS route but i mean a norc would probably offer more bang for your buck considering all your doing is punching paper. I would still choose Norc though
 
Someone ran the first bunch of Norcs against that g*ddamned chart when they first arrived, they came out pretty close to Bushmaster (believe it or not - and that's the danger of comparing "features"). I'm not sure about the latest Norcs, the first ones had FA uppers, and someone posted these latest ones have a semi BCG. If you're looking for the best deal right now, I'd say that the deal Armseast has on Stag uppers is a good place to start, and then just throw together a lower with cheap parts 'til you can afford to swap them out with the good stuff. Even the cheapest stock and LPK should get you through your first 1,000 rounds.
 
enefgee said:
Someone ran the first bunch of Norcs against that g*ddamned chart when they first arrived, they came out pretty close to Bushmaster (believe it or not - and that's the danger of comparing "features"). I'm not sure about the latest Norcs, the first ones had FA uppers, and someone posted these latest ones have a semi BCG. If you're looking for the best deal right now, I'd say that the deal Armseast has on Stag uppers is a good place to start, and then just throw together a lower with cheap parts 'til you can afford to swap them out with the good stuff. Even the cheapest stock and LPK should get you through your first 1,000 rounds.
Click to expand...

or that tells you what a total POS bushmaster is ;)
 
Not to hijack, but I have just been pointing out the exact same issues to a less than receptive audience in this thread about DPMS barrel quality:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=588396

I really shouldn't bother, as most people look at post count as a way of deciding who the obvious "expert" is. Especially if they shout loud enough to drown out the truth when it doesn't agree with them.

All I can say is, as much as I come here when I need Canadian specific issues (legal, etc.) answered (and then with very careful screening), I stay as far away as I can when needing AR/M4 information.

If people want to educate themselves on the platform, go here:

http://www.m4carbine.net/forum.php

And here:

http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/69016/68995.html

To my surprise, the "experts" from this forum never stray over into those other forums like M4C, LF or SOCNET to give their valued opinions to those obviously misguided individuals.

Regards.

Mark
 
The chart is outdated and does not apply to rifles sold in Canada. The "outdated" is self-explanatory, the "does not apply to rifles sold in Canada" stems from the way large numbers of "US built" rifles cross the border - to wit: in pieces. You can buy an LMT upper here in Canada from many reputable dealers, when someone mates that upper to an LMT lower without LMT's knowledge you don't end up with an LMT rifle, you end up with a gray market rifle (there are more than a few gray market LMT's in Canada - ask Mark at Questar). This is why the chart is pretty much useless, unless you know the who, what, where and whyfor of the rifle, what's stamped on it means sh*t. Stag rifles in Canada are very much different in certain areas than Stag rifles in the US. Why? The importer cares to check everything, and make sure it's right before you get it. I won't even get into the whole concept of comparing "features" that have no effect on how the firearm operates - does a milspec receiver extension REALLY make a difference in how the rifle functions? Didn't think so. If you're 100 percent sure you're getting a firearm in the US, direct from the manufacturer in 'as built' condition, then the chart might describe your rifle, beyond that there are too many variables to rely on it.
 
MWL said:
Not to hijack, but I have just been pointing out the exact same issues to a less than receptive audience in this thread about DPMS barrel quality:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=588396

I really shouldn't bother, as most people look at post count as a way of deciding who the obvious "expert" is. Especially if they shout loud enough to drown out the truth when it doesn't agree with them.

All I can say is, as much as I come here when I need Canadian specific issues (legal, etc.) answered (and then with very careful screening), I stay as far away as I can when needing AR/M4 information.

If people want to educate themselves on the platform, go here:

http://www.m4carbine.net/forum.php

And here:

http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/69016/68995.html

To my surprise, the "experts" from this forum never stray over into those other forums like M4C, LF or SOCNET to give their valued opinions to those obviously misguided individuals.

Regards.

Mark
Click to expand...


Here is another link you might want to look into.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
 
I wouldn't call it bitter, it's more about being tired of seeing newbs given opinion dressed up as fact by people who are more about justifying their own purchases (or what they are trying to sell), or their experience from a sample of one (or their one, and their buddy's one as well - hey sample of two!).

If you couldn't afford to buy anything better (right now dammit, I'm not going to save up for a minute longer), then don't try to make yourself feel better by getting someone else to make the same mistake you did. "Buy once, cry once" is how I believe the saying goes. If you look at the cost of ammunition, and some of the junk that people end up feeling they have to have hanging off of their ARs (well, the supersecretdeltarangerseals have it, so I must need that too!), then they could easily afford to get a slightly more expensive gun.

Just because someone doesn't agree with your advice to go and buy that overpriced Oly on the dealer's shelf, doesn't mean that they are suggesting the person should go buy a tricked out Noveske. There are other options that meet certain accepted specifications, or more of them, that may even cost less.

That is where the chart comes in. Nowhere does it say that any make is a "jamamatic" as the anti's (as in anti the chart) would have you believe. It gives a list of "features", if you will, that are in most cases pretty vital to the running of the gun, based on what the military and others have found in testing, and specified in the TDP.

It allows the consumer to educate themselves by comparing the various offerings, and provides links to sites that contain information that, if read and understood, will make the newb more knowledgeable than the so-called experts that see fit to dole out their generous advice on forums such as this.

I would add some Smilies, but I'm just not a Smilie kind of person.

Regards.

Mark
 
enefgee said:
The chart is outdated and does not apply to rifles sold in Canada. The "outdated" is self-explanatory, the "does not apply to rifles sold in Canada" stems from the way large numbers of "US built" rifles cross the border - to wit: in pieces. You can buy an LMT upper here in Canada from many reputable dealers, when someone mates that upper to an LMT lower without LMT's knowledge you don't end up with an LMT rifle, you end up with a gray market rifle (there are more than a few gray market LMT's in Canada - ask Mark at Questar). This is why the chart is pretty much useless, unless you know the who, what, where and whyfor of the rifle, what's stamped on it means sh*t. Stag rifles in Canada are very much different in certain areas than Stag rifles in the US. Why? The importer cares to check everything, and make sure it's right before you get it. I won't even get into the whole concept of comparing "features" that have no effect on how the firearm operates - does a milspec receiver extension REALLY make a difference in how the rifle functions? Didn't think so. If you're 100 percent sure you're getting a firearm in the US, direct from the manufacturer in 'as built' condition, then the chart might describe your rifle, beyond that there are too many variables to rely on it.
Click to expand...

WTF are you talking about? For the most part rifles sold in Canada are identical to those sold in the States. Except for those altered for export permits, which can vary to a great degree some are pinned flashiders, no flashiders, chambered in .223 or marked .223, pinned stocks, etc. The metals the machining is all otherwise identical. A cold hammer forged barrel by daniel defense is a CHF barrel here or state side we're not that special that they completely change production for us.

To my knowledge M4 feed ramps were introduced to improve the feeding during full auto fire. Certain metal types are stronger and there are differences in forged vs billet receivers. If we're talking "milspec" then companies like KAC and Noveske are not because there tolerances are to tight and Noveske's barrels are M249 barrel steel.
 
enefgee said:
The chart is outdated and does not apply to rifles sold in Canada. The "outdated" is self-explanatory, the "does not apply to rifles sold in Canada" stems from the way large numbers of "US built" rifles cross the border - to wit: in pieces. You can buy an LMT upper here in Canada from many reputable dealers, when someone mates that upper to an LMT lower without LMT's knowledge you don't end up with an LMT rifle, you end up with a gray market rifle (there are more than a few gray market LMT's in Canada - ask Mark at Questar). This is why the chart is pretty much useless, unless you know the who, what, where and whyfor of the rifle, what's stamped on it means sh*t. Stag rifles in Canada are very much different in certain areas than Stag rifles in the US. Why? The importer cares to check everything, and make sure it's right before you get it. I won't even get into the whole concept of comparing "features" that have no effect on how the firearm operates - does a milspec receiver extension REALLY make a difference in how the rifle functions? Didn't think so. If you're 100 percent sure you're getting a firearm in the US, direct from the manufacturer in 'as built' condition, then the chart might describe your rifle, beyond that there are too many variables to rely on it.
Click to expand...

no more so than barrel steel...

I have seen ARs with lowers made of wood that worked exactly the same way as any other AR. But that does not mean I would tell anyone that a wood lower is a good idea.
 
Dangertree, I'm not sure if you are refering me or others to that site. If it's me, then that is why I visit numerous forums.

If there is some groupthink going on, then I would rather follow the groupthink on forums such as the ones I mentioned (populated and moderated by Industry Professionals and BTDT people), than the bubblegum (or should that be babbagun) forums (a couple spring to mind, and strangely enough they all seem to sprout the same BS despite being populated and moderated by different people).

With regard to enefgee's comments, the chart only listed (more on that later) those manufacturers that produced M4gerys (real M4s have a happy switch), and listed the "features" of factory assembled guns. That is where people like you, who obviously have a real hard@n for the chart, get it soooo wrong. It did not say "these guns will never have a problem, and these ones will never work". It allows the consumer to educate themselves regarding what features are vital to the long term reliability of the gun under potentially extreme conditions and hard use, and why.

As someone has already stated, ARs here in Canada are mainly range toys, and generally do not see hard use. Not too many people up here putting a couple of thousand rounds a week, or even a couple of thousand a day through their DPMS/Oly/whatever.

On that note, if you think there is no difference in receiver extensions (metal composition and manufacturing technique doesn't produce a product less likely to fail under hard use?), then you should probably follow the advice of read more, post less. Your posts are beginning to make you seem a little bit of a Stag/Armseast fanboy with a bit of Questarism thrown in.

If the chart is soooo bad, why are Armseast going to so much trouble to make sure their guns follow it, and the TDP, more closely than the manufacturer? That aside, if the manufacturer doesn't HP/MPI test every one of their barrels and bolts, or uses 4140 rather than ORD 4150 steel in the barrels (note, I'm not necessarily referring to Stag here), how are the retailers here going to rectify it? Staking is one thing, but I'd like to see the dealers rectify those issues.

On the whole "out of date" issue, the only thing that is out of date, is your knowledge of the chart. If you follow my earlier link, you will find that it no longer lists any manufacturers (and may or may not in the future, Rob is still undecided on that). When, if ever, it again contains actual manufacturer information, this will come from the manufacturers, be verified by end users, and be kept as up to date as possible.

When it comes to individuals building frankenguns, the chart is there for them to use as a tool to decide what "features" they consider desirable or necessary, and hopefully in the future, what manufacturers are likely to supply parts that meet those specifications. Granted, the chart stated that for example, all factory assembled LMTs are HP/MPI tested, and that does not necessarily apply if you build it yourself, but knowing that you built your gun using only LMT parts, means that you used parts from a manufacturer that builds (sources parts) that are more likely to meet those standards than one that only batch tests (there's an interesting subject all on its own) to cut down on cost.

Regards.

Mark
 
MWL said:
Not to hijack, but I have just been pointing out the exact same issues to a less than receptive audience in this thread about DPMS barrel quality:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=588396

I really shouldn't bother, as most people look at post count as a way of deciding who the obvious "expert" is. Especially if they shout loud enough to drown out the truth when it doesn't agree with them.

All I can say is, as much as I come here when I need Canadian specific issues (legal, etc.) answered (and then with very careful screening), I stay as far away as I can when needing AR/M4 information.

If people want to educate themselves on the platform, go here:

http://www.m4carbine.net/forum.php

And here:

http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/69016/68995.html

To my surprise, the "experts" from this forum never stray over into those other forums like M4C, LF or SOCNET to give their valued opinions to those obviously misguided individuals.

Regards.

Mark
Click to expand...

So your armchair commando's are better than our armchair commando's you say?

Ever fired or even held a DPMS? I didn't think so.
Do you own an AR at all?
 
If you can't wait and need a rifle now, norinco is your best and only bet for under 1K.
That being said, I would wait it out for the Canadian made AR coming out in summer or look at deals on the EE.
 
Just for MWL here is a MASSIVE list of the Agencies that use DPMS Rifles. I guess you and your 'sources' know more than they do and you should let them in on just how ####ty the guns they use are... :rolleyes:

FEDERAL AGENCIES
1. 8th District Attorney
2. Badlands National Park, Interior, SD
3. Camp Douglas
4. Federal Bureau of Investigation: Anti Terrorism Assistance Program
5. Federal Reserve Bank Of Minneapolis, Minneapolis, MN
6. U.S. Attorney’s Office
7. U.S. States Attorney's Office
8. U.S. Border Patrol
9. U.S. Capitol Police, Washington DC
10. U.S. Department of State: AntiTerrorism
11. U.S. Department of the Interior/BIA
12. U.S. Marine Corps
13. U.S. Marshal Service, Birmingham, AL
14. U.S. Marshal Service, Chicago, IL
15. U.S. Marshal Service, Portland, OR
16. U.S. Marshal Service, Puerto Rico
17. U.S. States Attorney’s Office

STATE AGENCIES
1. Bevill State Community College Police Department, Sumiton, AL
2. California Highway Patrol
3. CDOC Training Academy
4. Central Lakes College Police, Brainerd, MN
5. Colorado Department of Corrections, Cannon City
6. Department of Corrections, St Paul, MN
7. Department of Police and Traffic, Houston, TX
8. Drug Task Force, Idabel, OK
9. Idaho State Police
10. J. Levy Correctional Center, LA
11. Kentucky State Police
12. Kentucky Vehicle Enforcement
13. Law Enforcement Equipment Distribution, Tacoma, WA
14. Louisiana State Police, Baton Rouge, LA
15. Maine State Police Department
16. Metro Narcotics Task Force, Alexandria, LA
17. Metro Nashville Airport Authority, Nashville, TN
18. Michigan State Police, East Lansing, MI
19. Minneapolis Parks and Recreation Board, Minneapolis MN
20. Minnesota Correctional Facility: Oak Park Heights and Rush City
21. Minnesota DNR Management Resources
22. Minnesota Department of Public Safety
23. Minnesota Gang Strike Force
24. Minnesota State Patrol Training, Shoreview, MN
25. Minnesota State Patrol, St. Paul, MN
26. Missouri Department of Corrections: Licking and Western RECP
27. Mississippi Department of Public Safety
28. Nebraska State Patrol Troop E, Scottsbluff, NE
29. Newcastle Correctional Facility, New Castle, IN
30. Quileute Fish & Wildlife
31. Rochester Community & Tech College, Rochester, MN
32. South Central Texas Narcotics Task Force
33. South Dakota State Brand Board
34. Special Tactics Services, Virginia BEach, VA
35. Tennessee Wildlife Res./LE
36. Texas Department of Public Safety, Austin
37. Texas Rangers
38. Utah Highway Department
39. West Texas A&M University
40. Wisconsin DNR
41. Wyoming State Patrol

TRIBAL AGENCIES/DEPARTMENTS
1. Ely Shoshone Tribal Police
2. Fond Du Lac Tribal Police Department, Fond Du Lac, MN
3. Lac Du Flambeau Chippewa Indian Reservation
4. Menominee Tribal Police
5. Mille Lacs Tribal Police, Onamia, MN
6. Norris/Washoe Tribe
7. Omaha Nation LE Services
8. Omaha Tribal Police Department, NE
9. Onieda Tribal Police Department
10. Pueblo of Acoma Police Department, NM
11. Ramah Navajo Chapter
12. St. Croix Tribal Police Department
13. Tesque Tribal Police Department
14. Washoe Tribe of NV

COUNTY SHERIFFS
A.
1. Adams County Sheriff
2. Alamosa County Sheriff
3. Anoka County Sheriff’s Training Division
4. Anoka County Sheriff
5. Appomattox County Sheriff, Appomattox, VA
6. Ashland County Sheriff, Ashland, WI
7. Audrain County Sheriff

B.
1. Barron County Sheriff, Barron, WI
2. Becker County Sheriff
3. Benton County Sheriff, Foley, MN
4. Bexar County Sheriff, San Antonio, TX
5. Belknap County Sheriff, Alton, NH
6. Beltrami County Sheriff, Bemidji, MN
7. Blackhawk County Sheriff, Waterloo, IA
8. Boone County Sheriff
9. Bradford County Sheriff
10. Bremer County Sheriff , Waverly, IA
11. Brown County Sheriff
12. Brunswick County Sheriff, Bolivia, NC
13. Buchanan County Sheriff
14. Butte County Sheriff, Arco, ID

C.
1. Calhoun County Sheriff, Saint Matthews, SC
2. Camden County Sheriff
3. Cameron County Sheriff, Olmito, TX
4. Charles County Sheriff, LaPlata, MD
5. Charlotte County Sheriff, Punta Gorda, FL
6. Chisago County Sheriff, Center City, WI
7. Care O Lake County Sheriff
8. Carlton County Sheriff, Carlton, MN
9. Carter County Sheriff
10. Carver County Sheriff
11. Cass County Sheriff, Walker, MN
12. Cedar County Sheriff, Hartington, NE
13. Clark County Sheriff, Neillsville, FL
14. Clark County Sheriff, Vancouver, WA
15. Clay County Sheriff, Liberty, MO
16. Clay County Sheriff, Green Cove Springs, FL
17. Clayton County Sheriff
18. Crow Wing County Sheriff, Brainerd, MN
19. Cocke County Sheriff, Newport, TN

D.
1. Davison County Sheriff, Mitchell, SD
2. Dawson County Sheriff, Lamesa, TX
3. Decatur County Sheriff, Bainbridge, GA
4. Deleware County Sheriff, Deleware, OH
5. Douglas County Sheriff, Alexandria, MN
6. Dorchester County Sheriff, Cambridge, MD

E.
1. Earth County Sheriff
2. Eau Claire County Sheriff
3. Ector County Sheriff
4. Edgecome County Sheriff, Tarboro, NC
5. Effingham County Sheriff, Effingham, IL
6. Elk County Sheriff, Howard, KS
7. El Paso County Sheriff, Colorado Springs, CO
8. Erath County Constable Precinct #1, Stephenville, TX
9. Escambia County Sheriff

F.
1. Fayette County Sheriff, West Union, IA
2. Fife Police Department
3. Fillmore County Sheriff
4. Florence County Sheriff
5. Fountain County Sheriff, Covington, IN
6. Franklin County Sheriff, Winchester, TN

G.
1. Garfield County Sheriff, Glenwood Springs, CO
2. Garfield County Sheriff, Panguitch, UT
3. Gasconade County Sheriff, Hermann, MO
4. Gilmer County Sheriff, Ellijay, GA
5. Goshen County Sheriff, Torrington, WY
6. Grant County Sheriff, Lancaster, W
7. Green County Sheriff, Monrow, WI
8. Greene County Sheriff, Greeneville, TN
9. Grayson County Jail, Leitchfield, KY
10. Grant County Sheriff, Hyannis, NE

H.
1. Hamblen County Sheriff, Morristown, TN
2. Hand County Sheriff, Miller, SD
3. Hardin County Sheriff
4. Hardy County Sheriff, Mooorefield, WV
5. Harvey County Sheriff, Newton KS
6. Henderson County Sheriff, Lexington, TN
7. Haskell County Sheriff, Sublette, KS
8. Hennepin County Sheriff, Minneapolis, MN
9. Henry County Sheriff, New Castle, IN
10. Hillsdale County Sheriff, Hillsdale, MI
11. Hubbard County Sheriff, Park Rapids, MN
12. Hughes County Sheriff
13. Humboldt County Sheriff

I.
1. Iron County Sheriff
2. Isanti County Sheriff, Cambridge, MN

J.
1. Jackson County Sheriff
2. Jasper County Sheriff, Rensselaer, IN
3. Jefferson County Sheriff
4. Johnson County Sheriff, Warrensburg, MO

K.
1. Kandiyohi County Sheriff
2. Kankakee County Sheriff, Kankakee, IL
3. Kennedy County Sheriff
4. Klamath Falls Sheriff, Klamath Falls, OR
5. Knox County Sheriff, Knoxville, TN
6. Koochiching County Sheriff

L.
1. Lafayette County Sheriff
2. Lake County Sheriff, Waukegan, IL
3. Lake County Sheriff, Two Harbors, MN
4. Lake County Sheriff, Polson, MT
5. Latah County Sheriff
6. Lawrence County Sheriff
7. Lancaster, County Sheriff
8. Langlade County Sheriff, Antigo, WI
9. Leelanau County Sheriff
10. Levy County Sheriff, Bronson, FL
11. Lincoln County Sheriff
12. Livingston Parish Sheriff, Walker, LA
13. Los Angeles County Sheriff, Los Angeles, CA
14. Lubbock County Sheriff, Lubbock, TX
15. Lynchburg County Sheriff, Lynchburg, VA
16. Lyon County Sheriff, Marshall, MN

M.
1. Madison County Sheriff, Rexburg, ID
2. Mahnomen County Sheriff, Mahnomen, MN
3. Manitowoc County Sheriff, Manitowoc, WI
4. Manatee County Sheriff, Bradenton, FL
5. Marshall County Sheriff
6. Martin County Sheriff
7. McCurtain County Sheriff
8. McPherson County Sheriff, McPherson, KS
9. Meigs County Sheriff, Pomeroy, OH
10. Menifee County Sheriff, Frenchburg, KY
11. Menominee County Sheriff
12. Miami County Sheriff, Troy, OH
13. Middlesex County Sheriff, Saluda, VA
14. Mineral County Sheriff, Hawthorne, NV
15. Mississippi County Sheriff
16. Monroe County Public Safety Lab
17. Montgomery County Sheriff
18. Morrison County Sheriff
19. Muscatine County Sheriff, Muscatine, IA
20. Muscogee County Sheriff, Columbus, GA

O.
1. Oakland County Sheriff, Pontiac, MI
2. Oconee County Sheriff, Watkinsville, ID
3. Ogle County Sheriff, Oregon, IL
4. Olmstead County Sheriff, Rochester, MN
5. Oneida County Sheriff, Rhinelander, WI
6. Orange County Sheriff
7. Orleans Parish Sheriff, New Orleans, LA
8. Otter Tail County Sheriff, Fergus Falls, MN
9. Owyhee County Sheriff, Murphy, ID
10. Ozaukee County Sheriff, Port Washington, WI

P.
1. Park County Sheriff, Cody, WY
2. Perry County Sheriff, Perryville, MO
3. Pershing County Sheriff, Lovelook, NV
4. Phillips County Sheriff
5. Pike County Sheriff, Magnolia, MS
6. Pinal County Sheriff, Pine City, MN
7. Pine County Sheriff, Pine City, MN
8. Pipestone County Sheriff, Pipestone, MN
9. Platte County Sheriff, Wheatland, WY
10. Poweshiek County Sheriff
11. Presidio County Sheriff, Marfa, TX
12. Price County Sheriff, Phillips, WI
13. Prince George's County Sheriff, Largo, MD
14. Powell County Sheriff, Deer Lodge, MT
15. Poweshiek County Sheriff, Montezuma, IA
16. Polk County Sheriff, Crookston, MN
17. Pope County Sheriff, Glenwood, MN
18. Pope County Sheriff, Russellville, AR

R.
1. Ramsey County Sheriff
2. Riverside County Sheriff, Riverside, GA
3. Rockingham County Sheriff, Harrisonburg, VA

S.
1. San Diego County Sheriff, San Diego, CA
2. Santa Clara County Sheriff, San Jose, CA
3. Sheboygan County Sheriff, Sheboygan, WI
4. Shelby County Sheriff, Columiana, AL
5. Sherburne County Sheriff, Elk River, MN
6. Sibley County Sheriff, ###lord, MN
7. Somerset County Sheriff
8. Saint Croix County Sheriff
9. Saint John Parish Sheriff, LaPlace, LA
10. Saint Joseph County Police Department
11. Stanton County Sheriff, Stanton, NE
12. Stark County Sheriff, Dickinson, ND
13. Stone County Sheriff, Galena, MO
14. Stutsman County Sheriff, Jamestown, ND
15. Sutton County Sheriff, Sonora, TX

T.
1. Tallahatchie County Sheriff, Charleston, MS
2. Tama County Sheriff, IA
3. Taney County Sheriff
4. Teller County Sheriff, Divide, CO
5. Tooele County Sheriff, Tooele, UT
6. Traill County Sheriff
7. Treasure County Sheriff, Hysham, MT
8. Tuolumme County Sheriff

V.
1. Virginia Beach Sheriff

W.
1. Wadena County Sheriff, Wadena, MN
2. Warren County Corrections
3. Warren County Sherriff, Vicksburg, MS
4. Washington County Sheriff, Greenville, MS
5. Washoe County Sheriff, Reno, NV
6. Waupaca County Sheriff
7. Webb County Constable
8. Whitley County Sheriff, Williamsburg, KY
9. Wilbarger County Sheriff, Vernon, TX
10. Will County Forest Preserve, Joliet, IL
11. Will County Sheriff, Joliet, IL
12. Wilson County Sheriff, Fredonia, KS
13. Wilson County Sheriff, Lebanon, TN
14. Winnebago County Sheriff, Rockford, IL
15. Woodford County Sheriff, Versailles, KY

Y.
1. Yamhill County Sheriff, McMinnville, OR
2. York County Sheriff, Yorktown, VA

Z.
1. Zapata County Sheriff, Zapata, TX

POLICE DEPARTMENTS
A.
1. Aberdeen Police Department, Aberdeen, SD
2. Abilene Police Department, Lamesa, TX
3. Airport Police Department, Minneapolis-St. Paul Int’l Airport
4. Alamosa Police Department
5. Alexandria Police Department , Alexandria, IN
6. Alexandria Police Department, Alexandria, MN
7. Allen Police Department, Allen, TX
8. Alton Police Department, Alton, NH
9. Alton Police Department/Belknap
10. Amarillo College Police Department
11. Anchorage Police Department, Anchorage, AL
12. Annandale Police Department
13. Antioch Police Department, Antioch, IL
14. Ardmore Police Department, Ardmore, OK
15. Asheville Police Department, Asheville, NC
16. Ashland Ohio Police Department, Ashland, OH
17. ATAP-L.S.P.A.
18. Auburn Police Department
19. Avon Lake Police Department, Avon Lake, OH

B.
1. Bairoil Police Department, Bairoil, WY
2. Baker Hill Police Department
3. Bangor Police Department
4. Barrington Hills Police Department, Barrington, IL
5. Bartlett Police Department, Bartlett, TN
6. Baxter Police Department, Baxter, MN
7. Bay City Police Department, Bay City, MI
8. Beacon Police Department, Beacon, NY
9. Beatrice Police Department, Beatrice, NE
10. Beaver Dam Police Department, Beaver Dam, WI
11. Bee Cave Police Department, Bee Cave, TX
12. Bel Nor, MO Police Department
13. Bell Gardens Police Department, Bell, CA
14. Belleville Police Department, Belleville, IL
15. Bellevue Police Department, Bellevue, NE
16. Bells Police Department, Bells, TX
17. Bellview Police Department, Bellview, FL
18. Benson, MN Police Department
19. Benton Police Department
20. Bera Police Department
21. Berlin Police Department, Berlin, GA
22. Berwyn Police Department
23. Bethal Police Department
24. Bethel Police Department
25. Big Lake Police Department, Big Lake MN
26. Bixby Police Department, Bixby, OK
27. Blackwater USA, Moyock, NC
28. Blaine Police Department, Blaine, MN
29. Blue Earth Police Department, Blue Earth, MN
30. Boonville Police Department, Boonville, IN
31. Boonville Police Department, Boonville, MO
32. Borough of Shrewsbury Police Department, Shrewsbury, NJ
33. Brainerd Police Department, Brainerd, MN
34. Breezy Point Police Department, Breezy Point, MN
35. Bridgeville Borough Police Department, Bridgeville, PA
36. Bristol Police Department
37. Brentwood Police Department
38. Brentwood Police Department, Brentwood, TN
39. Bridgeville Borough Police Department, Bridgeville, PA
40. Brookfield Police Department, Brookfield, WI
41. Brookhaven Police Department, Brookhaven MS
42. Brookings Police Department, Brookings, SD
43. Brooklyn Center Police Department, Brooklyn Center, MN
44. Bryant Police Department, Bryant, AR
45. Burbank Police Department, Burbank, IL
46. Burlington Police Department, Burlington, WI
47. Burnsville Police Department, Burnsville MN
48. Butler Police Department, Butler, WI
49. Bynesville Police Department

C.
1. Calexico Police Department, Calexico, CA
2. Calvert Police Department, Calvert City, KY
3. Cambria Police Department
4. Cando, ND Police Department, Cando ND
5. Cape Coral Police Department, Cape Coral, FL
6. Cape Girardeau Police Department
7. Carpentersville Police Department, Carpentersville, IL
8. Carrington Police Department, Carrington, ND
9. Caryville Police Department
10. Castle Rock Police Department, Castle Rock, CO
11. Cathedral City Police Department, Cathedral City, CA
12. Cavelier Police Department, Cavalier, ND
13. Cedarburg Police Department
14. Celina, TX Police Department, Celina, TX
15. Centerville Police Department, Centerville, GA
16. Certe Police Department
17. Champaign Police Department, Champaign, IL
18. Champlin, MN Police Department
19. Chatfield Police Department, Chatfield, MN
20. Chattanooga Police Department, Chattanooga, TN
21. Cherokee Police Department, Cherokee, NC
22. Chetek Police Department, Chetek, WI
23. Cheyenne Police Department, Cheyenne, WY
24. Cincinnati Police Department, Cincinnati, MO
25. City of Beline Police Department
26. City of Desert Hot Springs Police Dept, Desert Hot Springs, CA
27. City of Dyersburg Police Department, Dyersburg, TN
28. City of Florence Police Department, Florence, KY
29. City of Grinnell Police Department
30. City of Hutchinson Police Department
31. City of Kingsport Police Department, Kingsport, TN
32. City of Kingston Police Department
33. City of Leesburg Police Department, Leesburg, FL
34. City of Maryville Police Department
35. City of Middlesborough Police Department
36. City of New Castle Police Department, New Castle, DE
37. City of Plano Police Department, Plano, TX
38. City of Ramsey Police Department
39. City of Sadieville Police Department, Sadieville, KY
40. City of San Marcos Police Department, San Marcos, TX
41. City of Toledo Police Department, Toledo, OH
42. City of Washington Police Department
43. Clarksdale Police Dept, NARC Division, Clarksdale, MS
44. Clarksville Police Department, Clarksville, TN
45. Clear Lake Police Department
46. Clearbrook Police Department, Clearbrook, MN
47. Cleveland Police Department, Cleveland TN
48. Cleveland Heights Police Department, Cleveland Heights, OH
49. Clinton Police Department
50. Clovis Police Department, Clovis, NM
51. Coburg Police Department
52. Colbert Police Department, Colbert, OK
53. Colby-Abbotsford Police Department, Abbotsford, WI
54. Collegedale Police Department, Collegedale, TN
55. Coloma Police Department, Coloma, WI
56. Colorado Springs Police Department, Colorado Springs, CO
57. Columbia Heights Police Department, Columbia Heights, MN
58. Columbiana Police Department, Columbiana, AL
59. Columbus Police Department, Columbus, WI
60. Commerce City Police Department, Commerce City, CO
61. Conover Police Department, Conover, NC
62. Cooper City Police Department, Cooper City, FL
63. Corinth Police Department, Corinth, TX
64. Cornelia Police Department, Cornelia, GA
65. Cottage Grove Police Department, Cottage Grove, MN
66. Countryside Police Department, Countryside, IL
67. Collierville Police Department, Collierville TN
68. Corpus Christi Police Department, Corpus Christi, TX
69. Crandon, WI Police Department
70. Crestwood Police Department, Crestwood, IL
71. Cudahy Police Department, Cudahy, WI
72. Cut Bank Police Department, Cut Bank, MT

D.
1. Darien Police Department
2. Dassel Police Department, Dassel, MN
3. Dekalb County Police SWAT, Decatur, GA
4. Delavan Police Department
5. Denver Police Department, Denver, CO
6. Detroit Lakes Police Department, Detroit Lakes, MN
7. Dickson Police Department, Dickson, TN
8. Downers Grove Police Department, Downers, Grove IL
9. Duluth Police Department, Duluth, MN
10. Dyersburg Police Department

E.
1. East Chicago Police Department, East Chicago, IN
2. East Point Police Department, East Point, GA
3. Eau Claire Police Department, Eau Claire, WI
4. Eden Prairie Police Department, Eden Prairie, MN
5. El Paso Police Department
6. Elizabethtown Police Department
7. Elk Grove Police Department, Elk Grove, CA
8. Elk River Police Department, Elk River, MN
9. Elko Police Department, Elko, NV
10. Elko Police Department, Elko, MN
11. Ellsworth, WI Police Department
12. Elmhurst Police Department, Elmhurst, IL
13. Ely Police Department, Ely, MN
14. Emeryville Police Department, Emeryville, CA
15. Enid Police Department, Enid, OK
16. Erin Police Department
17. Evansdale Police Department, Evansdale, IA
18. Evansville Police Department
19. Eveleth, MN Police Department

F.
1. Fairbault Police Department
2. Fairview, MT Police Department
3. Fall Creek, WI Police Department
4. Fall River Police Department, Fall River, MA
5. Falls Township Police Department, Fairless Hills, PA
6. Fargo Police Department, Fargo, ND
7. Farmington Police Department, Farmington, MN
8. Fife Police Department, Fife, WA
9. Fishers Police Department, Fishers, IN
10. Floresville City Police Department, Floresville, TX
11. Fond Du Lac, MN Tribal Police Department
12. Forest Police Department, Forest, MS
13. Forest Lake, MN Police Department
14. Forrest City Police Department, Forrest City, AR
15. Forrest General Police Department
16. Fort Belknap Police Department, Forest, MS
17. Fletcher Police Department, Fletcher, NC
18. Florence Police Department, Florence, AL
19. Fort Belknap Police Department, Forest, MS
20. Fort Myers Police Department, Fort Myers, FL
21. Fort Towson Police Department, Fort Towson, OK
22. Franklin Police DepartmentFramklin, MA
23. Fredericksberg Police Department, Fredericksburg, VA
24. Freeport Police Department, Freeport, IL
25. Fridley, MN Police Department
26. Ft. Belknap Police Department, Harlem, MT
27. Fultondale Police Department, Fultondale, AL

G.
1. Gaithesburg Police Department, Gaithesburg, MD
2. Gallup Police Department, Gallup, NM
3. Garland City Police Department, Garland, UT
4. Gladstone Police Department, Gladstone, OR
5. Glascow Police Department
6. Glendale Heights Police Department
7. Glenrock, WY Police Department
8. Glenview Police Police Department
9. Golden Valley, MN Police Department, Golden Valley, MN
10. Goodhue, MN Police Department
11. Goshen Police Department
12. Grand Forks Police Department, Grand Forks, ND
13. Grayslake Police Department, Grayslake, IL
14. Grayson Police Department, Grayson, KY
15. Green Oak Township Police Department
16. Greencastle Police Department, Greencastle, IN
17. Greenfield Police Department, Greenfield, CA
18. Greenwich Township Police Department, Stewartsville, NJ
19. Grinnell Police Department
20. Grove City Police Department
21. Gulfport Police Department, Gulfport, FL

H.
1. Hampton Police Department
2. Harington, NE Police Department
3. Hartford Police Department
4. Hartland Police Department
5. Hasting Police Department, Hastings, MN
6. Hatch Police Department, Hatch, NM
7. Hattiesburg Police Department
8. Hayden Lake Police Department, Hayden, ID
9. Heartland Police Department, Heartland, WI
10. Henderson Police Department, Henderson, TX
11. Hermantown Police Department, Hermantown, MN
12. Hermitage Police Department, Hermitage, PA
13. Hickory Creek Police Department, Hickory Creek, TX
14. Hidalgo Police Department, Hidalgo, TX
15. Highlands Police Department, Highland Falls, NY
16. Highmore Police Department, Highmore, SD
17. Hollister Police Department
18. Hollywood Police Department, Hollywood, FL
19. Hoover Dam Police Department, Boulder City, NV
20. Hopkins Police Department
21. Horn Lake Police Department, Horn Lake, MS
22. Horsham Township Police Department
23. Houston, MN Police Department
24. Howard City Police Department, Howard City, MI
25. Hurley Police Department, Hurley, WI
26. Huron Police Department
27. Hutchins Police Department, Hutchins, TX
28. Hutchinson Police Department

I.
1. Idabel, OK Police Department
2. International Falls Police Department, International Falls, MN
3. Inver Grove Heights Police Department
4. Iola Police Department, Iola, WI

J.
1. Jackson Police Department
2. Jasper Police Department
3. Jefferson City Police Department, Jefferson City, TN
4. Jonesborough Dept. of Public Safety, Jonesborough, TN

K.
1. Kamiah Marshalls Office, Kamiah, ID
2. Kasson Police Department, Kasson, MN
3. Katy Police Department
4. Kearney Police Department, Kearney, NE
5. Kendallville, IN Police Department
6. Kent Police Department, Kent, OH
7. Kettering Police Department
8. Kiel Police Department, Kiel, WI
9. Kingsport Police Department
10. Kingsville Police Department, Kingsville, TX
11. Kohler Police Department

L.
1. Lac Courte Oreilles, WI Police Department
2. La Crescent, MN Police Department
3. Lac Du Flambeau Chippewa Indian Res
4. Lafayette Police Department, Lafayette, IN
5. Lake Cumberland Area Drug Task Force
6. Lake in the Hills Police Department, Lake in the Hills, IL
7. Lake in the Woods Police Department
8. Lake Mary FL, Police Department
9. Lake Oswego Police Department
10. Lake Shastine Police Department
11. Lancaster Police Department
12. Lardo Multi-Agency
13. Las Vegas Metro Police Department (SWAT), N. Las Vegas, NV
14. Lebanon Police Department, Lebanon, KY
15. Leech Lake Police Department
16. Leeds Police Department
17. Leesburg Police Department, City of Leesburg, FL
18. Legrand, IA Police Department
19. Leonia Police Department, Leonia, NJ
20. Lexington-Fayette, KY Police Department
21. Libby Police Department, Libby, MT
22. Liberty Lake Police Department
23. Lincoln Police Department
24. Lincolnshire Police Department, Lincolnshire, IL
25. Lincolnwood Police Department, Village of Lincolnwood, IL
26. Lino Lakes Police Department
27. Linstrom Police Department
28. Lima Police Department, Lima, OH
29. Litchfield Police Department, Litchfield, MN
30. Litchfield, IL Police Department
31. Lititz Borough Police Department, Lititz, PA
32. Little Falls, MN Police Department
33. Littleton Police Department
34. Livingston Parish LA
35. Lone Grove Police Department, Lone Grove, OK
36. Long Branch Police Department, Long Branch, NJ
37. Lopatcong Twp Police Department, Phillipsburg, NJ
38. Los Banos Police Department
39. Los Lunas Police Department, Los Lunas, NM
40. Louisville Metro Police Department
41. Lovelock Police Department
42. Loves Park Police Department
43. Lowell Police Department, Lowell, WI
44. LTBE Law Enforcement
45. Lyons Police Department, Lyons, IL

M.
1. Madera Police Department, Madera, CA
2. Madison Police Department
3. Madison Police Department, Madison, AL
4. Madison Police Department, Madison, SD
5. Mahanoy City Police Department, Mahanoy City, PA
6. Mammoth Lakes Police Department, Mammoth Lakes, CA
7. Manassas Park Police Department, Manassas VA
8. Manawa Police Department, Manawa, WI
9. Mandeville Police Department
10. Mankato Police Department
11. Manlius Police Department, Manlius, NY
12. Maplewood Police Department
13. Marion Police Department
14. Marion, WI Police Department
15. Marionville, MO Police Department
16. Marshfield Police Department
17. Martin Police Department, Maryville, TN
18. Marvell, AR Police Department
19. Mason Police Department
20. Matteson Police Department
21. McFarland Police Department, McFarland, WI
22. MDTA Police Deptatment
23. Medford Police Department, Medford, WI
24. Mellen Police Department, Mellen, WI
25. Melrose Police Department, Melrose, NM
26. Menasha Police Department
27. Mentor Police Department
28. Metro Nashville Airport Authority
29. Midland Police Department, Midland, TX
30. Miller SD Police Department
31. Minneapolis Parks and Recreation Board
32. Minneapolis Police Department
33. Minnestrista Public Safety, MN
34. Minor Hill, TN Police Department
35. Minot Police Department, Minot, ND
36. Mishawaka Police Department
37. Mission Police Department
38. Mission Police Department
39. Mitchell Department of Public Safety, Mitchell, SD
40. Modesto Police Department, Modesto, CA
41. Monroe Police Department, Monroe, MI
42. Montrose Police Department
43. Montvale Police Department
44. Moorhead Police Department, Moorhead, MN
45. Mora Police Department
46. Morgan Police Department, Morgan, MN
47. Morrisville Police Department, Morrisville, NC
48. Morton Grove Police Department, Morton Grove, IL
49. Moss Point Police Department
50. Mound, MN Police Department
51. Mounds View, MN Police Department
52. Mountain Grove, MO Police Department
53. Mt Horeb Police Department
54. Mt. Vernon Police Department
55. Murfreesboro Police Department, Murfreesboro, TN
56. Muscatine Police Department, Muscatine, IA
57. Muskego Police Department

N.
1. Nampa Police Department, Nampa, ID
2. Napoleon Police Department, Napoleon, MO
3. Nashville Airport Police, Nashville, TN
4. Neillsville Police Department
5. New Berlin Police Department
6. New Castle Correctional Facility
7. New Glarius, WI Police Department
8. New Hampton Police Department, New Hampton, IA
9. New Hope Police Department, New Hope, MN
10. New London Police Department
11. New Prague Police Department, New Prague, MN
12. New Vienna, OH Police Department
13. New Ulm, MN Police Department
14. Newburgh Police Department, Newburgh, NY
15. Nichols Police Department, Nicholes, IA
16. New Prague Police Department, New Prague, MN
17. New Vienna, OH Police Department
18. Newburgh Police Department, Newburgh, NY
19. Newport City Police Department
20. Newton Police Department
21. Nichols Police Department
22. Norris/Washoe Tribe
23. North Attleboro Police Department
24. North Branch Police Department, North Branch, MN
25. North College Police Department, Cincinnati, OH
26. North Little Rock Police Department, North Little Rock, AR
27. North Penn Tactical Respose
28. North Port, FL Police Department
29. North Providence Police Department
30. North St Paul Police Department, North St Paul, MN
31. North Topsail Beach Police, North Topsail Beach, NC
32. Northbrook Police Department
33. Northfield Police Department
34. Northglenn Police Department
35. Northport Police Department

O.
1. Oak Brook Police Department, Oak Brook, IL
2. Oak Creek Police Department, Oak Creek, WI
3. Oak Hill Police Department
4. Oakdale Police Department, Oakedale, MN
5. Oceanside Police Department, Oceanside, CA
6. Ogden, UT Constables Office
7. Olathe Police Department
8. Omaha Nation LE
9. Omro Police Department
10. Orland Park Police Department
11. Ormo Police Department
12. Orangeburg Department of Public Safety, Orangeburg, SC
13. Osage Beach Public Safety , Osage Beach, MO
14. Osawatomie Police Department
15. Oshkosh Police Department, Oshkosh, WI
16. Osseo Police Department, Osseo, MN
17. Ottawa Police Department
18. Overland Park Police Department, Overland Park, KS
19. Oviedo Police Department, Owatonna, MN
20. Ozark Police Department

P.
1. Palm Beach Gardens Police Department
2. Park Rapids Police Department
3. Parker Police Department
4. Parrish of West Baton Rouge, W. Baton Rouge, LA
5. Pecos Police Department
6. Pelham Police Department, Pelham, AL
7. Pell City Police Department, Pell City, AL
8. Pequot Lakes Police Department, Pequot Lakes, MN
9. Phillipsburg Police Department
10. Piedmaont Police Department
11. Pierre Police Department, Pierre, SD
12. Pigeon Forge Police Department
13. Pillager, MN Police Department
14. Pine Mountain Police Department, Pine Mountain, GA
15. Pinehurst Police Department, Pinehurst, NC
16. Piqua Police Department, Piqua, OH
17. Plainview Police Department
18. Plymouth Police Department, Plymouth, MN
19. Polson Police Department, Polson, MT
20. Poplarville Police Department, Poplarville, MS
21. Port Arthur Police Department, Port Arthur, TX
22. Port Lavaca Police Department, Port Lavaca, TX
23. Priceville Police Department
24. Prosper Police Department, Prosper, TX
25. Punxsutawney Police Department
26. Purdy, MO Police Department

R.
1. Ranlo Police Department, Gastonia, NC
2. Rapids Parish Police Department
3. Reading, MI Police Department
4. Red Wing, MN Police Department
5. Redwood Falls, MN Police Department
6. Renalo Police Department
7. Reno NV Police Department
8. Rennsselaer Police Department, Rensselaer, NY
9. Reno, NV Police Department
10. Rexburg Police Department, Rexburg, ID
11. Rialto Police Department, Rialto, CA
12. Rice Lake Police Department
13. Richmond Hill Police Department
14. Richmond Police Department, Richmond, CA
15. Ridgely Police Department, Ridgely, MD
16. Ripon Police Department
17. Riverside Department of Public Safety
18. Robbinsdale Police Department, Robinsdale, MN
19. Rochester Police Department, Rochester, MN
20. Rockford Police Department, Rockford, IL
21. Rocklin Police Department, Rocklin, CA
22. Rockton Police Department
23. Rolla Police Department, Rolla, MO
24. Roma Police Department, Roma, TX
25. Rosemount Police Department, Rosemount, MN
26. Rosendale Police Department
27. Roseville Police Department, Roseville, MN
28. Royalton Police Deaprtment

S.
1. San Angelo Police Department
2. San Diego Police Department
3. San Jose Police Department
4. San Marcos Police Department
5. Sandusky Police Department, Sandusky, OH
6. Sanford Police Department, Sanford, FL
7. Sauk Centre Police Department, Sauk Centre, MN
8. Sauk Praire Police Department, Sauk City, WI
9. Sauk Village, IL Police Department
10. Saxonburg Borough, PA Police Department
11. Scott Police Department, Scott, LA
12. Selma Police Department, Selma, AL
13. Sentobia Police Department, Sentobia, MS
14. Seward Police Department
15. Shakopee Police Department, Shakopee, MN
16. Shawnee Police Department, Shawnee Mission, KS
17. Shelbyville Police Department, Shelbyville, KY
18. Shelbyville Police Department, Shelbyville, TN
19. Shirley Police Department
20. Shoemakersville Police Department
21. Shorewood Hills Police Department
22. Sioux Falls Police Department, Soux Falls, SD
23. Siren Police Department, Siren, WI
24. Slidell Police Department, Slidell, LA
25. Slinger Police Department, Slinger, WI
26. Smithville Police Department
27. Smyrna Police Department, Smyrna, GA
28. Smyrna Police Department, Smyrna, DE
29. Springfield/Branson Airport Police Department, Springfield, MO
30. Somerset Police Department
31. South Boston Police Department
32. South Jordan Police Department, South Jordan, UT
33. South Lake Minnetonka police Department, Excelsior, MN
34. Southhaven Police Department, Southhaven, MS
35. Southwest Mercer County Regional Police, Farrell, PA
36. Sparkman Police Department
37. Sparks Police Department, Sparks, NV
38. Spencer, WI Police Department
39. Springfield/Branson Airport Police Department, Springfield, MO
40. Stanford Police Department, Stanford, FL
41. St. Anthony, MN Police Department
42. St. Charles Police Department, St. Charles, MO
43. St. Cloud MCF
44. St. Cloud Police Department, St. Cloud, MN
45. St. Croix Tribal Police Department, Hertel, WI
46. St. Francis Police Department, St. Francis, WI
47. St. John, MO Police Department
48. St. Louis County Police Department
49. St. Paul PArk Police Department, St. Paul Park, MN
50. St. Paul Police Department, St. Paul, MN
51. Sterling Police Department, Sterling, CO
52. Streator Police Department
53. Sturgis Police Department, Sturgis, SD
54. Sutton Police Department
55. Swee####er Police Department

T.
1. Tahoka Police Department, Tahoka, TX
2. Tavares Police Department
3. Temple Police Department
4. Tell City Police Department, Tell City, IN
5. Terrell Police Service, Terrell, TX
6. Thorp Police Department, Thorp, WI
7. Tinton Falls Police Department
8. Tomah Police Department, Tomah, WI
9. Tomball Police Department
10. Town of Carbondale Police Department
11. Town of Highlands Police Department
12. Town of Manlius Police Department, Manilus, NY
13. Town of Newburgh Police Department
14. Trenton Police Department, West Bend, WI
15. Trimble, TN Police Department
16. Trotwod Police Department

U.
1. Unalaska Department, Unalaska, AK
2. University of Alaska Police Department, Madison, AK
3. University of Alabama Police Department
4. University of Chicago Police, Chicago, IL
5. University of Minnesota Police Department, Minneapolis, MN
6. UpperSoux Police Department

V.
1. Valley Police Department, Valley, AL
2. Valley View Police Department
3. Verndale Police Department, MN
4. Verona Police Department, Verona, MI
5. Village of Carol Stream Police, Carol Stream, IL
6. Village of Carpenterville Police Department
7. Village of Dane Police Department, Dane Wisconsin
8. Village of Lincolnwood Police Department
9. Village of Lombard Police Department, Lombard, IL
10. Village of Olympia Fields Police Department
11. Village of Woodridge Police Department

W.
1. Waite Park Police Department, Waite Park, MN
2. Walker River LE
3. Waseca Police Department
4. Washington Township Police Department, Washington, NJ
5. Waterloo Police Department
6. Watertown, SD Police Department
7. Waukegan Police Department
8. Waupaca Police Department
9. Waverly Police Department, Waverly, IA
10. Wayzata, MN Police Department
11. Webster City Police Department, Webster, IA
12. Weslaco Police Department, Weslaco, TX
13. West Allis Police Department
14. West Fargo Police Department, West Fargo, ND
15. West Hennepin Public Safety Department
16. West Seneca Police Department, Buffalo, NY
17. West St. Paul Police Department
18. Weyauwega Police Department, Weyauwega, WI
19. Wheatland Police Department
20. Whitefish Police Department
21. Wild Rose, WI Police Department
22. Williamsburg Police Department, Williamsburg, KY
23. Willow Park Police Department
24. Willowbrook Police Department
25. Wisconsin Rapids Police Department
26. Wisner City Police Department, Wisner, NE
27. Woodbury Police Department, Woodbury, MN
28. Woodford Police Department
29. Woodland Police Department
30. Woodruff, WI Police Department
31. Wray Police Department, Wray, CO
32. Wright City Police Department, Wright City, OK
33. Wylie Police Department, Wylie, TX
 
Actually, I have fired, handled, assembled, stripped and owned various parts and ARs from just about every manufacturer from Olympic Arms to Colt in the last 28 or so years.

I probably own more ARs than any sane person should (in fact I just traded two for some ammo and a nice shotgun).

If you think that shooting another DPMS (oooh look, the fit and finish is just like a Colt, it must be just as good, just like the nice man at the gun shop who sold it to me said it was!) will make me change my mind, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I think you might be interested in purchasing.

As for the armchair commando comment, why don't you come on over, and we can rehash this discussion on one of the other forums? Ah, wait, someone might disagree with you about how good your DPMS really is, and then not be awed by your post count and snappy comments. Of course, they'd be wrong, they only have some actual experience and facts on their side.

As for your "list", I think that you will find that manufacturers who supply lists like that use a lot of names of organizations who they sent a sample to, or a had member who purchased one for their own use through the org., or might have used them at one time. Also, some depts. buy guns based on the same cr@p you are sprouting, and then can't afford to change due to budgets, etc. I mean the USMC? Really? Seen a lot of DPMS equipped Marines over in Iraq have you?

You are right about one thing though, DPMS is not bottom of the barrel, let's not forget about Oly Arms.

Regards.

Mark
 
Last edited:
MWL said:
Actually, I have fired, handled, assembled, stripped and owned various parts and ARs from just about every manufacturer from Olympic Arms to Colt in the last 28 or so years.

I probably own more ARs than any sane person should (in fact I just traded two for some ammo and a nice shotgun).

If you think that shooting another DPMS (oooh look, the fit and finish is just like a Colt, it must be just as good, just like the nice man at the gun shop who sold it to me said it was!) will make me change my mind, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I think you might be interested in purchasing.

As for the armchair commando comment, why don't you come on over, and we can rehash this discussion on one of the other forums? Ah, wait, someone might disagree with you about how good your DPMS really is, and then not be awed by you post count and snappy comments. Of course, they'd be wrong, they only have some actual experience and facts on their side.

You are right about one thing though, DPMS is not bottom of the barrel, let's not forget about Oly Arms.

Regards.

Mark
Click to expand...

You are my hero. Do you want the cookie that comes along with that?

But you didn't answer, what is your personal experience with DPMS rifles?

... and what do your internet chat buddies know that puts them ahead of the hundreds of professional users that I listed above currently choosing DPMS as their 'work' rifle?

BTW - Nobody is claiming that the DPMS rifles are the top of the heap. There is just you chiming in crapping on them. Do you see the difference or is the hero status you think you have on some other forum blinding you to that fact? I mean seriously, you are trying to bolster your attack on DPMS by referring to other enthusiast forum postings by people you no doubt have never met.
 
MWL said:
Actually, I have fired, handled, assembled, stripped and owned various parts and ARs from just about every manufacturer from Olympic Arms to Colt in the last 28 or so years.

I probably own more ARs than any sane person should (in fact I just traded two for some ammo and a nice shotgun).

If you think that shooting another DPMS (oooh look, the fit and finish is just like a Colt, it must be just as good, just like the nice man at the gun shop who sold it to me said it was!) will make me change my mind, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I think you might be interested in purchasing.

As for the armchair commando comment, why don't you come on over, and we can rehash this discussion on one of the other forums? Ah, wait, someone might disagree with you about how good your DPMS really is, and then not be awed by you post count and snappy comments. Of course, they'd be wrong, they only have some actual experience and facts on their side.

As for your "list", I think that you will find that manufacturers who supply list like that use a lot of names of organizations who they sent a sample to, or a had member who purchased one for their own use through the org., or might have used them at one time. Also, some depts. buy guns based on the same cr@p you are sprouting, and then can't afford to change due to budgets, etc. I mean the USMC? Really? Seen a lot of DPMS equipped Marines over in Iraq have you?

You are right about one thing though, DPMS is not bottom of the barrel, let's not forget about Oly Arms.

Regards.

Mark
Click to expand...

Mark I have to disagree a rifle is a rifle, if it goes bang thats what its supposed to do! You do realize that most manufacturers do not make their own small parts etc they get them from a handfull of companies that supply them not only to DPMS but to almost every AR company that sells them!

By the way I have a Oly arms the thing isnt the best looking finish out there but the barrel is one of the more accurate ones! and it goes bang!

To the Op its all about salesmanship, alot of people want the Ferrari alot of people cant afford it! Just look at Stag Arms made of CMT parts one of the many good AR's and not overpriced.

Talk to Walt at Arms East he'll help you out!
 
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