M&P and Glock comparison with pics

IM_Lugger said:
Inspired by the Glock vs M&P thread I figured I'll post a direct comparison to help people that are deciding between the two.

Here is a Gen 4 Glock 22 and M&P9. They are both DAO polymer framed guns but they are as different as they are similar.

Size. M&P's slide is a little bit wider, but the M&P is a little smaller overall but the beavertail actually makes it unnecessarily longer than a Glock, even though M&P's slide and barrel is a little shorter than Glock's. My first M&P that I had years ago, got a beavertail reduction for that and another reason mentioned below.

Trigger feels is a little lighter on the M&P, but the difference is slight.

Sight radius is identical on both guns. But the sights themselves are better on the M&P (vs basic Glock model). Although Glock's plastic sights are still very usable and provide a good sight picture.

Grip is where the main differences are IMO. (M&P has a small backstrap and Glock doesn't have the backstrap add ons - feel the most comfortable that way for me). Gocks grip is a lot more grippy which I like but I suspect after a long day of shooting M&P would feel more comfortable for that reason. Also, the angle of the grip on a Glock forces your hand to sit very high on the gun which makes M&P feel like it has a higher bore axis where in reality they are about the same. When I hold the M&P the web of my hand isn't even close to touching the beavertail, which is another reason why I'm not a fan of it. M&P has an edge in grip size tho, it feels smaller than Glock.

Accessories. Glock has an advantage with mags and parts being cheaper and easier to come by which is a big factor for me

I would rate both guns above Styer and Ruger SP9/40 (which I owned in the past)

more to come if I think of something. :redface:

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Great side by side photo comparison IM-lugger, thanks for taking the time to post these high quality pics.:rockOn:
I love my Glock, but seeing the M&P next to it ,maybe I'll try them out at my local gun store for feel and get one in 9mm or maybe a .45! :D
 
In regards to the M&P slide release levers, I am serious. One on a 9 and another on a 40. But I should have clarified that the levers broke off, sorry to cause a little confusion.
One side on the left and one side on the right. It makes no difference in the operation of the pistol, the slide would lock back after every last round however when locking back the slide manually you had to use the other or existing lever. To add the pistols were not abused or dropped.

I still think that the M&P is a fine pistol. I would trust it if I had it, so I am in no way putting this pistol down. I just wanted to let you know about some of my notable experiences with the M&P.

With that said, I have known people with M&P's that have had no failures since day one and I have also known people with Glocks that have had its fair share of "issues, "for whatever reason. They are all machines with moving parts so I understand that sh*t happens.
But Like I have mentioned, I have never seen Glocks lose body parts while in use or after use.
 
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VancityRider said:
In regards to the M&P slide release levers, I am serious. One on a 9 and another on a 40. But I should have clarified that the levers broke off, sorry to cause a little confusion.
One side on the left and one side on the right. It makes no difference in the operation of the pistol, the slide would lock back after every last round however when locking back the slide manually you had to use the other or existing lever. To add the pistols were not abused or dropped.

I still think that the M&P is a fine pistol. I would trust it if I had it, so I am in no way putting this pistol down. I just wanted to let you know about some of my notable experiences with the M&P.

With that said, I have known people with M&P's that have had no failures since day one and I have also known people with Glocks that have had its fair share of "issues, "for whatever reason. They are all machines with moving parts so I understand that sh*t happens.
But Like I have mentioned, I have never seen Glocks lose body parts while in use or after use.
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Any idea on round counts? Did you (or the owner) contact S&W and see what they had to say about it? I would say falling off or out of the gun makes more sense than breaking off the gun, especially if there's no history of drops or abuse. Both guns broke the same side or different?

TDC
 
TDC said:
Any idea on round counts? Did you (or the owner) contact S&W and see what they had to say about it? I would say falling off or out of the gun makes more sense than breaking off the gun, especially if there's no history of drops or abuse. Both guns broke the same side or different?

TDC
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Round count was more than 2k at the time.(However the pistols get used a lot) It seems that S&W was aware of the issue. Also apparently there are some members of forums down south are having or have had this is issue and S&W has sent replacement parts to them. It could be that it was a early run batch of pistols that mat have suffered from weak slide release levers. Like I have said, I know of some people that have recently (w/in the last year) that have picked up a MP series pistol and have not had this issue happen to them. It happened to the 9 on the left side lever and on the 40 the right side lever. They both operated functionally perfect though.
 
 
TDC said:
The action style is determined by the actions the trigger performs when firing. WHO CARES WHAT DOES OR DOES NOT HAPPEN DURING CYCLING! If the trigger charges and releases the firing system, it is a double action. Perhaps not in the "traditional" sense like pistols with hammers, but they're still double action. Charge and release, Two actions, hence DOUBLE ACTION.

Second strike is not a requirement for nor is it defined as being a requirement for DA, or DA/SA guns. Second strike is a bullsh*t marketing gimmick designed to increase sales to the less informed.

Your answer to the "confusion" is below(and above) in mildot's post.

TDC
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I would say that it is VERY IMPORTANT what happens during cycling as the trigger can NOT perform two actions on it's own.

A double action trigger performs two functions.

It "cocks" the mainspring of the hammer or striker and then releases it to "fire" the pistol.


A Glock trigger does not "####" the striker spring and is incapable of fully cocking the spring all by itself. You have to rack the slide first.
 
Second strike is a bullsh*t marketing gimmick designed to increase sales to the less informed.
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I like having a second strike feature on a gun, every time a centerfire round didn't go off on a first strike second strike has always set the round off in my experience. Even with a .22 it works half the time.
 
kman300 said:
I would say that it is VERY IMPORTANT what happens during cycling as the trigger can NOT perform two actions on it's own.

A double action trigger performs two functions.

It "cocks" the mainspring of the hammer or striker and then releases it to "fire" the pistol.


A Glock trigger does not "####" the striker spring and is incapable of fully cocking the spring all by itself. You have to rack the slide first.
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I hate to beak it to you but the glock is double action, cuz it shure as hell isn't single action so..... and yes it does #### the striker
 
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VancityRider said:
Round count was more than 2k at the time.(However the pistols get used a lot) It seems that S&W was aware of the issue. Also apparently there are some members of forums down south are having or have had this is issue and S&W has sent replacement parts to them. It could be that it was a early run batch of pistols that mat have suffered from weak slide release levers. Like I have said, I know of some people that have recently (w/in the last year) that have picked up a MP series pistol and have not had this issue happen to them. It happened to the 9 on the left side lever and on the 40 the right side lever. They both operated functionally perfect though.
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Strange, on the upside S&W took care of it. Thanks for the info.

TDC
 
kman300 said:
I would say that it is VERY IMPORTANT what happens during cycling as the trigger can NOT perform two actions on it's own.

A double action trigger performs two functions.

It "cocks" the mainspring of the hammer or striker and then releases it to "fire" the pistol.


A Glock trigger does not "####" the striker spring and is incapable of fully cocking the spring all by itself. You have to rack the slide first.
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It makes no difference whether or not the pistol is capable of a "second strike". When you load the gun and depress the trigger, how many "actions" is it performing with regards to firing the gun? The answer is TWO! Glocks both ####/charge the striker and release it, TWO ACTIONS. Under normal operating conditions the system will reset itself and the cycle repeats. The action type is not based off what happens when the pistol fails to fire or is not loaded. No one cares what an unloaded firearm does as they're useless.

TDC
 
The DAO versions of the Third Generation S&W, such as the 5946, also have an action that is half-cocked by the slide, but I've never heard anybody argue that they aren't DAO.

If the trigger stroke both retracts the hammer or striker to full #### and releases it, it is still double action. Even if cycling the slide "helps' the process along, the action is still ready to fire in a position that is not fully cocked.

Striker-fired pistols can also be single action. The FN/Browning 1900 and 1910 are examples of this.
 
TDC said:
It makes no difference whether or not the pistol is capable of a "second strike". When you load the gun and depress the trigger, how many "actions" is it performing with regards to firing the gun? The answer is TWO! Glocks both ####/charge the striker and release it, TWO ACTIONS. Under normal operating conditions the system will reset itself and the cycle repeats. The action type is not based off what happens when the pistol fails to fire or is not loaded. No one cares what an unloaded firearm does as they're useless.

TDC
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I can see that we are at an impasse. I can tell you how it isn't and you can tell me how it is. All I can say for sure is that I have my G17 in front of me. Trigger doesn't do ANYTHING until I rack the slide. The trigger can not perform two functions independently. I have to rack the slide every time I pull the trigger on a snap cap. I don't care that if the gun went bang I could pull the trigger again. Every time I pull the trigger it should perform two actions which are to #### the hammer and fire the gun. The Glock does not perform two actions every time I pull the trigger. It's as simple as that.

If you are however so convinced that you are correct, and to prevent further confusion of people that consult wikipedia (which we all know is full of misinformation) I strongly encourage you to edit the pages that state Glocks are not DAO pistols. You'd be doing everyone a service and it's really easy, as you previously stated.
 
kman300 said:
I can see that we are at an impasse. I can tell you how it isn't and you can tell me how it is. All I can say for sure is that I have my G17 in front of me. Trigger doesn't do ANYTHING until I rack the slide. The trigger can not perform two functions independently. I have to rack the slide every time I pull the trigger on a snap cap. I don't care that if the gun went bang I could pull the trigger again. Every time I pull the trigger it should perform two actions which are to #### the hammer and fire the gun. The Glock does not perform two actions every time I pull the trigger. It's as simple as that.

If you are however so convinced that you are correct, and to prevent further confusion of people that consult wikipedia (which we all know is full of misinformation) I strongly encourage you to edit the pages that state Glocks are not DAO pistols. You'd be doing everyone a service and it's really easy, as you previously stated.
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Here's the difference, you're talking about defining the action type by DRY FIRING the gun. As I stated, dry firing an unloaded gun is pointless, no one cares what an unloaded firearm does as unloaded firearms are USELESS. Under normal operation, the trigger will charge and release the striker, double action. When you pick up your Glock and load it(cycle the slide) the trigger system will perform both actions. I am well aware that the trigger system will only function once until the the slide is cycled. Of course, the slide will cycle on its own under NORMAL use. The ability to repeatedly operate the firing system regardless of whether or not the pistol is loaded(or slide cycles) is called SECOND STRIKE CAPABILITY and is not a criteria for DA pistols. The majority of handgun users are only concerned with the actions required to make the gun fire, not what occurs in the basement while dry firing.

TDC
 
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