M&P and Glock comparison with pics

tjhaile said:
The DAO versions of the Third Generation S&W, such as the 5946, also have an action that is half-cocked by the slide, but I've never heard anybody argue that they aren't DAO.

If the trigger stroke both retracts the hammer or striker to full #### and releases it, it is still double action. Even if cycling the slide "helps' the process along, the action is still ready to fire in a position that is not fully cocked.

Striker-fired pistols can also be single action. The FN/Browning 1900 and 1910 are examples of this.
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As is the Springfield XD..

TDC
 
I can see that we are at an impasse. I can tell you how it isn't and you can tell me how it is. All I can say for sure is that I have my G17 in front of me. Trigger doesn't do ANYTHING until I rack the slide. The trigger can not perform two functions independently. I have to rack the slide every time I pull the trigger on a snap cap. I don't care that if the gun went bang I could pull the trigger again. Every time I pull the trigger it should perform two actions which are to #### the hammer and fire the gun. The Glock does not perform two actions every time I pull the trigger. It's as simple as that.

If you are however so convinced that you are correct, and to prevent further confusion of people that consult wikipedia (which we all know is full of misinformation) I strongly courage you to edit the pages that state Glocks are not DAO pistols. You'd be doing everyone a service and it's really easy, as you previously stated.
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If you want to believe wikipedia that's fine, however I'll go with my armorers training and a Glock instructor,who has 20+ yrs training, and 24+ as an active LEO.
In a SA only gun, the trigger never cocks the hammer, only releases it.
In a DAO gun if the trigger in any instance cocks and releases the hammer/striker then its DAO.
The Glock uses a system that does just that, if part of the slide was removed, you would see that after racking the slide that the pistol is not fully cocked, when you press the trigger you would see the trigger cocking the weapon and finishing the operation of firing.
That's why the Glock can be dropped with no fear of a discharge, because its not fully cocked and therefore cannot discharge.
d:h:
 
I am not believing only what wikipedia says. There are several glock armorers on glocktalk that disagree with what you as a glock armorer say is true.

There is also a fellow called Keith Manne who is a NRA certified pistol instructor that disagrees with you.

http://members.cox.net/guntraining/glocks.htm

Lots of "experts" (certified people) don't agree that the glock is DAO. Not just wikipedia.
 
kman300 said:
I am not believing only what wikipedia says. There are several glock armorers on glocktalk that disagree with what you as a glock armorer say is true.

There is also a fellow called Keith Manne who is a NRA certified pistol instructor that disagrees with you.

http://members.cox.net/guntraining/glocks.htm

Lots of "experts" (certified people) don't agree that the glock is DAO. Not just wikipedia.
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i read that article and this guy just contradicts himself, glock says its double action and they made the freakin gun.

i have an xd and it is striker fired single action, because the trigger ONLY releases the sear nothing else, thats what single action is.

if any argument is to be made it could be that glock uses a inferior double action design, that requires racking the slide
 
aheppner said:
i read that article and this guy just contradicts himself, glock says its double action and they made the freakin gun.

i have an xd and it is striker fired single action, because the trigger ONLY releases the sear nothing else, thats what single action is.

if any argument is to be made it could be that glock uses a inferior double action design, that requires racking the slide
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Can you refer us to that so the argument will stop?
 
GunGuy34 said:
Glock stands on its own. Lets call it Glock Action or GA as i read on another forum lol.
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This is what I would go with. There seems to be a lot of debate and evidence both ways but I thought I read somewhere that "Unique Constant Action" was Glock's official stance on the matter... don't quote me on this though haha
 
The Glock pistol incorporates the "Safe-Action" system which features 3 safeties and is similar to a constant double action only system
Not a single action only pistol
Right out of the Glock Armorer's manual.

FWIW the ATF classify it as a DAO.
 
mildot said:
The Glock pistol incorporates the "Safe-Action" system which features 3 safeties and is similar to a constant double action only system
Not a single action only pistol
Right out of the Glock Armorer's manual.

FWIW the ATF classify it as a DAO.
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Keyword is similar. Its not a SA or DAO pistol, it is its own unique Glock Action. Instead of creating a new definition for this type of action, they call it what it most closely resembles which is DAO.
 
I think posting pictures of the beautiful M&P and that Soviet-inspired hunk of plastic together is like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters. It may have horrible consequences for folks that actually see beauty in the Glock. You should at least blur out the Glock; think of the impressionable children.
 
aheppner said:
i read that article and this guy just contradicts himself, glock says its double action and they made the freakin gun.

i have an xd and it is striker fired single action, because the trigger ONLY releases the sear nothing else, thats what single action is.

if any argument is to be made it could be that glock uses a inferior double action design, that requires racking the slide
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Please elaborate on how the Glock system is "inferior" to a "normal" or "constant" double action?

TDC
 
TDC said:
Here's the difference, you're talking about defining the action type by DRY FIRING the gun. As I stated, dry firing an unloaded gun is pointless, no one cares what an unloaded firearm does as unloaded firearms are USELESS. Under normal operation, the trigger will charge and release the striker, double action. When you pick up your Glock and load it(cycle the slide) the trigger system will perform both actions. I am well aware that the trigger system will only function once until the the slide is cycled. Of course, the slide will cycle on its own under NORMAL use. The ability to repeatedly operate the firing system regardless of whether or not the pistol is loaded(or slide cycles) is called SECOND STRIKE CAPABILITY and is not a criteria for DA pistols. The majority of handgun users are only concerned with the actions required to make the gun fire, not what occurs in the basement while dry firing.

TDC
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So, if you work the Glock “Reset” does this mean the pistol is actually a SA/DA and you are both wrong? :)

If I’m shooting a Glock, I find the first trigger pull feels more like a DA and the rest more like a SA. I’m assuming this is because I’m working the reset (after the first shot is fired) and when doing so I’m not moving the striker with the trigger (except for the first shot).
 
TDC said:
Please elaborate on how the Glock system is "inferior" to a "normal" or "constant" double action?

TDC
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i was just saying that it dosnt work like a traditional double action, (no second strike because the slide needs to be racked to partially #### the striker). i was just saying for argument sake, i like glocks but they are not single action
 
aheppner said:
i was just saying that it dosnt work like a traditional double action, (no second strike because the slide needs to be racked to partially #### the striker). i was just saying for argument sake, i like glocks but they are not single action
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Ok, so how would the Glock system be inferior? Anyone have an argument to support that theory?

TDC
 
I have DAO striker fired guns, SA hammer guns as well as DA/SA. I think the downside of the Glock/M&P action (as well as a SA) is the lack of re-strike capability. No matter how you look at it Glock's/M&P's trigger can't reset itself, so when dryfiring you have to partially rack the slide and regardless what one thinks about the second strike capability DA/SA guns have it; which makes it superior to DAO striker fired guns.
 
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