"the powers that be " ... 'nuff said.
Alex Robinson needs a kick in the nuts
- Thread starter Wally
- Start date
"the powers that be " ... 'nuff said.
You haven't brought anything new to light. We have heard this crap over and over. (I forgot to add: and over, and over, and over, and over....). Maybe when the owner of the site says he is sick of this nonsense that would give you a clue but apparently not. I only tell you this because this thread is pretty much borked already. I know I am not going to bother trying to stop the bashing in any more threads. It is futile.
Take some of your own advice.
Not bashing anything (as I really don't care about this product one way or another), but... any pro-XCR folks out there care to fill me in on WHY we need to shell out almost $1000 CDN more for an XCR (up here in Kanukistan) than what the same gun is going for in the US? Our dollar has been on par or higher than the US dollar for a LONG time now, after all. According to what I've read on US forums, that gun sells for approx $1500 new south of the border (on a good day for Robinson). Quite a difference when compared to the MSRP of $2400 up here that we've been seeing, eh?
Maybe if the price was fair instead of being grossly inflated... more people would buy XCRs, which in turn would allow Robinson to make a better product (through more R&D money coming in)? I sure as heck would've bought one IF it had been fairly priced (but it wasn't/isn't).
At first glance, it just feels like the manufacturer and/or whoever's importing this gun is trying to capitalize on our draconian post-Liberal gun control laws. Not cool, IMHO... and certainly not scoring any brownie points with the shooting community, all reliability issues aside.
Maybe if the price was fair instead of being grossly inflated... more people would buy XCRs, which in turn would allow Robinson to make a better product (through more R&D money coming in)? I sure as heck would've bought one IF it had been fairly priced (but it wasn't/isn't).
At first glance, it just feels like the manufacturer and/or whoever's importing this gun is trying to capitalize on our draconian post-Liberal gun control laws. Not cool, IMHO... and certainly not scoring any brownie points with the shooting community, all reliability issues aside.
Btw... for those interested... out of curiosity, I have found (via Google) a copy of the letter that was mentioned in a previous post (written by the owner of Robinson Arms on the ar15.com forums). He sure as hell seems like a bit of a short fused fella, doesn't he? Threatening customers with bad service if they badmouth the XCR on online forums? Lol... now I've seen everything!
That said, Robinson sure sounds like a serious operation.
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Alex Robinson has been like this since day one.............Don't think he will change anytime soon............
That said, Robinson sure sounds like a serious operation.
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Alex Robinson has been like this since day one.............Don't think he will change anytime soon............
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In all fairness, this is the first time I've read it or heard about "the letter"... but it IS freakin hilarious! When I've read this part, I've almost fallen off my chair:
...I think Kalashnikov would disagree with the 'covers the whole earth' thing, as he was the only one who could ever pull it off. His AK-47s not falling apart under the harshest conditions and not costing $2400 might have something to do with it (in some parts of Africa, a new AK can be had for $50).
It's hard to picture a boy soldier somewhere in Zimbabwe with a $2400 XCR, no matter how good the gun's platform is. To think otherwise is simply delusional.
Your first mistake is that "you've read on the US forums". $1500 down south is not the complete price for a ready go XCR, you go on the robarm website and take a look at the prices for all the options the Canadian model come with you will realize that the price is on par with all other firearms from the US.
Since you guys all love to quote numbers, I'll post the breakdown for your benefit.
18.6" barrel $75
permanently attached A2 flash hider $50
fixed tube stock $160
Midwest Industries folding front sight $90
Midwest Industries folding back sight $105
Falcon Industries rail covers $36
base model XCR-L (pistol/rifle) $1500 (I post this number last because all the internet forum experts can only remember the first line)
That adds up to a total $2016 if you were to buy the Canadian compliant in the US. throw in shipping, brokerage fee and what ever payouts for the bureaucrats in Ottawa or Washington, that difference becomes pretty slim pretty quickly.
Yes there were issues with the powder and residue creating jams and yes there was a lack of cleaning kits issued but if you read further down the Wikipedia article you will also read:
"The problem was resolved by fitting the M16 with a buffer system, slowing the rate of fire back down to 650 to 850 rounds per minute and outfitting all newly produced M16s with an anti corrosive chrome-plated chamber.[31]"
My point is that it can take years to bring a firearm up to acceptable standards of functionality and reliability and the AR15 has this. Armalite started working on the basic design in the late 1950s. That's what, 50+ years ago? The XCR had issues when first produced and that's not deniable. Just like the AR15/M16. And changes were made to the AR15/M16 to make it function better and be more reliable.
According to those who own and shoot the XCR-L now, reliability has been addressed. Hopefully given the time its taking to bring XCR-M to market, it will be reliable and functional.
As to price, well the latest non restricted black rifle is the Bushmaster ACR. And that's selling for $3000+. I don't believe its available in .308 but you could do a barrel swap from .223 to 6.8 SPC. And the RFB - isn't its price similar to the XCR? I like the concept, might even be persuaded to purchase one. But I want to wait and see how it handles Canadian winters first, specifically how well it cycles in -15 to -30 C. temps. I'm not interested in a range gun. I have one already. I want a non restricted black rifle for hunting. It might not be the XCR, or the RFB. I might not even bother. But I'm happy that Robarms, Kel tec and any other manufacturer gives Canadians the choice.
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Thanks for the break down, I guess it does make a bit more sense then.... still, I don't think Robinson pays retails for all these parts. These prices are what you and me could expect to pay if we were building a project gun and getting parts from the store.
As for brokerage fees and other exportation red tape, the other US gun makers seem to be handling that quite easily and without much of an impact on our Canadian pricing (Ruger, Remington, S&W, etc). There doesn't seem to be that much of a significant difference, not $400/gun anyway.
I fully agree with first two statements above. The first quote below is something to note as well. Although the chrome bore/chamber was also introduced, it is only an additional reliability measure and not the cure to the issues outlined above. Regardless, the statement is true, it took a few years to perfect the AR platform. So what's different about Robarm and their teething issues? The amount of technical knowledge available in the firearms manufacturing business is staggering. Yet, with all this knowledge available and the current technical manufacturing capabilities, Robarm has yet to put out a reliable piece that isn't over weight or problem prone. Its been nearly 50 years since the AR first saw service, and the technology incorporated into the AR platform has remained relatively untouched for that period of time. Again, with the advancements in manufacturing processes/capabilities and the small arms knowledge available(freely or more readily thanks to the internet) why can't Robarm get it right? Magpul produced the Masada(before it became the shrubmaster ripoff) and that was their first attempt at a firearm. Robarm has atleast one "successful" model before the XCR. By proxy you'd think the guy with previous experience would have the advantage, and likely the better product. That isn't the case.
On that note I will address Greentips quote below second.
The M96 that some feel is or was a success, is neither. Its no longer offered and it never took off. Even GT admits its a "very interesting retro rifle" that fit a "niche market". Perhaps I'm a little simple or just plain redneck stupid, but "very interesting" translates into "less than reliable, poorly made and not really useful". Collectors find firearms "interesting" because they don't care if they work. As for "niche market" I'm not going to hazard a guess as to who other than collectors qualifies for that moniker.
TDC
Even if the FAL get de-prohibited I wouldn't hunt with one. Its a big rifle to lug around. Plus I bet their value would sky rocket. Better would be to de-restrict the AR (which I doubt will happen) then all the other black rifles would be f***** except for those with deep pockets that like to collect black rifles.
No more of a threat to RobArms would be the RFB as I believe its in the similar price range as a XCR-L though I understand back ordered. That and a .223 ACR with the barrel upgrade although the price on would be almost a grand more than a 6.8 XCR-L
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I'd own an AR if they were de-restricted as well would be chambered in 458 SOCOM or 30 AR...
Would prefer to just get a conversion kit for my XCR-L though because I do not have an issue with blah blah blah Loctite or spew spew spew Loctite...
Would prefer to just get a conversion kit for my XCR-L though because I do not have an issue with blah blah blah Loctite or spew spew spew Loctite...
