25-06 and big game

[Huntin' Gun]

What we're talking about now all depends on bullet construction. More frangible bullets will blow apart more quickly when they hit the animal at high speeds. Therefore they'll penetrate less than if they hit the same animal under the same conditions, but at a slower speed.

But if you're talking about Partitions, Accubonds, TSX's or other well constructed bullets, then the faster they go, the deeper they go.

Where the TSX's change things is with lighter bullets. You used to NEED a heavy-for-caliber bullet to get the penetration. And sometimes you'd NEED the larger caliber so you could achieve a greater wieght. All this was for penetration. Now with the TSX's [and the same can be said about bonded bullets, etc] you don't NEED to have the heavy bullet in order to penetrate. A lighter one will still penetrate because the bullet holds together and maintains its weight, thus maintaining the inertia.

That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Jordan Smith]

What we're talking about now all depends on bullet construction. More frangible bullets will blow apart more quickly when they hit the animal at high speeds. Therefore they'll penetrate less than if they hit the same animal under the same conditions, but at a slower speed.

But if you're talking about Partitions, Accubonds, TSX's or other well constructed bullets, then the faster they go, the deeper they go.

Yup. This is the principle that I was trying to describe in my post above, in not so many words.

The only thing that I would differ on, is that penetration is affected much more by frontal area than by retained weight. A bullet that expands to a huge frontal area, like the Swift SSII for example, will penetrate deeper if it impacts at a lower velocity, which reduces expansion. At lower impact velocities you don't see the parachute effect as much. The TSX is the polar opposite. You can drive it at MACH 10 and it'll only expand down to the bottom of the cavity (and may even lose a petal or three, which reduces frontal area even more), and once it reaches the bottom of the cavity, more velocity is only going to increase penetration. The TSX also has petals, rather than a round mushroom, which means less drag resistance.

There is a fine line somewhere in the sand for each bullet (and it's different for each bullet style, bullet weight, caliber, etc), at which we find the maximum penetration. This line is a compromise between momentum/impact velocity and drag resistance/expansion.

 

[Ruffed Grouse]

Oops, I was wrong!
I thought a 6.5 was .257. Actually, .257 is 6.53mm, but the bullets for a 6.5 are .264.
Thus, it appears that heaviest bullets normally available for a 25-06 would be 120 grain, still a pretty wicked load with a Nosler, or something similar.

There is another twist. I may get this backwards. But metric is land-to land and imperial (i.e., point-something inches) is full bullet diameter, which I understand to be somewhat more than groove-to-groove. 0.264 cal actually converts directly to 6.70056 mm, and the difference between that and 6.5 is the difference between the metric and imperial systems of denoting land-to-land vs full bullet diameter. So if a .257 cartridge had had a European origin, I think it would be about 6.3 or thereabouts, even though the bullet is slightly bigger than 6.3.

so...

'25 cal', e.g., 25-06 is land-to-land (mm) 6.35, land-to-land (cal) 0.250, and bullet diameter (cal) 0.257.

and ...

26 call, e.g., 6.5x55 is land-to-land (mm) 6.5, land-to-land (cal) 0.256, and bullet diameter (cal) 0.264.

RG

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[redryder]

With good bullets, it would be excellent on moose or elk. More gun than the widely acclaimed 6.5 x 55.

While I really like the 25-06, I think saying it is "more gun" than the 6.5 is kind of a stretch. Mainly because of bullet weight selections.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Load the .25-06 with a TSX/TTSX and the bullet weight issue becomes a moot point...

 

[Gatehouse]

I'd much rather use the superior cartridge- the .260 than the 25-06- but certainly with good bullets and good placement, the 25-06 will kill anything you want to shoot with it. Not my first choice for grizzly, though.

 

[todbartell]

I'd step up to a 270 or 280. You're burning the same amount of powder, might as well push a bigger bullet. Unless you're fragile and can't absorb 20 ft lbs of recoil energy

 

[bearhunter338-06]

I'd step up to a 270 or 280. You're burning the same amount of powder, might as well push a bigger bullet. Unless you're fragile and can't absorb 20 ft lbs of recoil energy

That is the problem. I am recovering from quadruple by-pass, so when I do get out hopefully this year, I need a light re-coiling rifle so I don't blow my sternum back into 2 pieces.

 

[brybenn]

With correct shot placement and premium bullets I think it is an acceptable round. I love my 25-06 it shoots amazingly accurate. Altho for moose it would not be my first choice but I'm bringing it along on my bear/wolf hunt in case I hunt a clear cut.

 

[Boomer]

Good post, Boomer!

The bold part above is true as a general rule, but I've found the TSX to turn that rule upside down. The faster they go, the more they penetrate!

TSXs, their South African counterparts the HV from GS Custom, and more recently Nosler's E-Tip the have sort of turned things a on their ear. They penetrate better due to the fact that they don't upset to quite the diameter of a similar lead core bullet and they have higher impact velocities due to the fact that they have the dimensions of a heavier bullet with less weight. A pal of mine has killed all sorts of big stuff around here with his .25/06 loaded with 100 gr TSXs, but he has subsequently moved to a .280 Remington, which should not be taken as a reflection on the cartridge; he likes this rifle better.

I still think mono-metal bullets in general and TSXs in particular are built backwards; their weight is determined by the length of their shank, with all the nose sections being the same length within caliber. In contrast, the length of the core not only determines the weight of a conventional bullet, but also the diameter of the upset, depending on the hardness of the alloy of the core and the design of the jacket.

Despite my preference for lead core bullets, its surprising how many boxes of mono-metal bullets are on my loading bench, to say nothing of the fact that I would be inclined to recommend a TSX for the most demanding shooting chores where I might consider the cartridge in question a minimal choice. For example the bear loads I put together for my wife's .30/06 are built around a 180 gr TSX although a 150 or 165 gr TSX would probably work as well for that duty. My .30/6 bear load is built around the 240 gr Woodleigh, but my wife's 1:12 twist barrel won't stabilize them. Likewise, if a fellow was asking for bullet suggestions for his .375 for an up coming African dangerous game hunt, I would without hesitation tell him to load TSXs in either 270 or 300 gr and to only take a few solids if dry land hippos, or elephants were to be in the mix.

So its not that I have anything against mono-metal slugs, I just happen to believe that good quality heavy for caliber lead core bullets have an edge in performance for most big game hunting. scenarios.

 

[Boomer]

Oops, I was wrong!
I thought a 6.5 was .257. Actually, .257 is 6.53mm, but the bullets for a 6.5 are .264.
Thus, it appears that heaviest bullets normally available for a 25-06 would be 120 grain, still a pretty wicked load with a Nosler, or something similar.

No problem Bruce, I bet your confusion goes back to the .256 Mannlicher. Despite the name, it too was a true 6.5 and knowledgeable folks in those days kind of got it in their heads that a .25 and a 6.5 were the same diameter.

I agree, a .257/120 at 3000 would be a wicked load, but I would fall short of calling it suitable for all North American game under all conditions, despite a pretty good track record.

 

[caramel]

The 25-06 is a compromise for recoil sensitive peoples, while offering good power, it is adequate no more on big game, put it this way why should i buy a Mustang with a V-6 of 300 HP when the same car can be equipped with a V-8 of 550 HP, same everything, just more power... JP.