AR shopping
- Thread starter JasonP
- Start date
First of all, what do you intend the AR for?
Is it for doing courses, three gun, tactical/competition shooting, CQB matches, plinking, long range marksmanship, etc?
Once you have it nailed down then you can go from there. You can more clearly define the properties of the rifle you will need for the designated role in your area of interest.
As for accuracy, I have found that with most modern firearms it is less the firearm and more the operator. I have seen people ring an 18" gong at 300m with a 7.5"bbl on an AR just as readily as an 20"bbl on the same type.
Paper punching at the range on rifle night. No courses or running around just accurate shooting for the centerfire portion of our club. It's only 50 and 20 m.
I'd recommend .223/5.56. The reason being is that it is the most common caliber on the AR platform and there is a lot of knowledge about working/trouble-shooting it. 7.62x39 is not as common, and frankly I believe that the cheap ammo we now have access to will not last forever. Eventually it will dry up, as it has in the past, and getting it will be difficult. .223 is easier, since it is a hunting round. If you start to reload, you'll find .223 components easier and cheaper to come by.
While you may be focusing on rifle night right now, you may find yourself sorely tempted by the ORA Service Conditions and CQB matches at Borden next year too.. so don't dismiss those out of hand because you're not interested at the moment
-- L
Bolivar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
At 20-50m you will not notice any accuracy difference between 5.56 and 223 chambering IMO, unless you are hoping for 1 hole groups.....in which case an AR is not an optimal choice.
If you are really concerned, look for something in 223 Wylde. It is a compromise between 5.56 and 223. I had a 223 chamber....extracted like crap....had it reamed to 223 Wylde - Good to go.
Lots more options with a 5.56 vs 7.62x39 cambering too. Many more rifles in the smaller cambering, recoil is nothing and it's cheap to reload. Just my 2 cents
If you are really concerned, look for something in 223 Wylde. It is a compromise between 5.56 and 223. I had a 223 chamber....extracted like crap....had it reamed to 223 Wylde - Good to go.
Lots more options with a 5.56 vs 7.62x39 cambering too. Many more rifles in the smaller cambering, recoil is nothing and it's cheap to reload. Just my 2 cents
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
For 50m plinking, accuracy isn't an issue. I wouldn't be concerned about the .223 vs. 5.56 chamber either, especially for your purposes. A well made American AR like LMT or Stag won't give you any issues with their .223 stamped barrels.
At this point, you should just be looking at different makes and models of AR's, and decide on how much you want to spend. IMO the LMT AR's that Questar has right now starting at just under $1300 are a fantastic buy. Stags are also very good for around the $1500 price range. NEA will have their sub $1000 AR's available soon, and Norc 14.5" AR's are also available (10.5" also in the near future).
At this point, you should just be looking at different makes and models of AR's, and decide on how much you want to spend. IMO the LMT AR's that Questar has right now starting at just under $1300 are a fantastic buy. Stags are also very good for around the $1500 price range. NEA will have their sub $1000 AR's available soon, and Norc 14.5" AR's are also available (10.5" also in the near future).
I'd like to have my R-15 (.223 Rem chamber) rechambered to .223 Wylde too, but ATRS doesn't want to do that for me.
Bolivar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I'd like to have my R-15 (.223 Rem chamber) rechambered to .223 Wylde too, but ATRS doesn't want to do that for me.
Did they say why?
A lot of good info here. Thanks everyone I think 5.56/223 will be for me.
Now narrowing down Stag / LMT and barrel lengths are my challenges
Bolivar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
A lot of good info here. Thanks everyone I think 5.56/223 will be for me.
Now narrowing down Stag / LMT and barrel lengths are my challenges
Don't forget NEA (Canadian Made - $1000 available in October?) and the old cheapy standby - Norinco.
Then there is always used on EE where you may have the opportunity to pay less than new, or more than new depending on the seller
Don't forget NEA (Canadian Made - $1000 available in October?) and the old cheapy standby - Norinco.
Then there is always used on EE where you may have the opportunity to pay less than new, or more than new depending on the seller
I think questar still has their questar AR-15 too.
For the purpose you stated I would go for one of those 3.
Also, I don't think the US likes to export ARs chambered in 5.56. Not a problem with a Chinese or Canadian made AR.
You can't go wrong with LMT either. You won't find anyone LMT bashing, anywhere.
Barrel length: anything shorter than 14.5 is going to be really obnoxious inside (IMO)
Don't forget NEA (Canadian Made - $1000 available in October?) and the old cheapy standby - Norinco.
Then there is always used on EE where you may have the opportunity to pay less than new, or more than new depending on the seller
I give up on the EE. Every offer I make I'm told to take a hike or get lost. Literally. On stuff that's been for sale for almost a year.
Oh well. If I'm paying retail I might was well be the first owner! And, apparently after I'm done with it I'll post to EE for more then new and make fun of the offers I get. Seems the proper way to do it.
I think questar still has their questar AR-15 too.
For the purpose you stated I would go for one of those 3.
Also, I don't think the US likes to export ARs chambered in 5.56. Not a problem with a Chinese or Canadian made AR.
You can't go wrong with LMT either. You won't find anyone LMT bashing, anywhere.
Barrel length: anything shorter than 14.5 is going to be really obnoxious inside (IMO)
Yes I contact Prophet River and can't export anything with NATO markings on it.
How long for NEA to come out? Where are the pre-orders for those? I could be convinced to wait until October if it's worth it, Otherwise the LMT sale is looking pretty good.
14.5 too short? Should I go with 16" then? My range is indoors.
What is the purpose of shorter barrels? Just easier to run around with and do summersaults while getting the bad guys?
I think I'm set between Stag/LMT unless there is a great reason to wait for NEA besides it being Canadian. A guy is letting me look at his Stag at the range so that will be helpful.
Thank you!
Bolivar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I have a Norc and like it. If I had the coin for an LMT or Stag I would happily buy one and not think I had payed too much because the Norc is so in expensive. Only good things are said about either makes here. Likely a good choice
Short barrels are meant to make the rifle lighter and easier to handle in close quarters environments. If you are limited to 50 yards then there is no ballistic reason to go longer, in fact shorter may be something you want to consider.
As for noise? I don't really think that you are going to find any real increase in decibels by going with a short barrel vs a 16 inch. It might seem louder since the sound is coming a few inches closer to you the shooter.
You are shooting a freaking centre fire rifle cartridge in a freakin indoor range. It's going to be LOUD regardless. Use ear plugs AND muffs and be happy.
BTW - if noise is a consideration, you could go for a pistol calibre (9mm) or even rimfire. Just sayin'
BTW again - AR's are sort of addictive to many. Betcha can't buy just one
Short barrels are meant to make the rifle lighter and easier to handle in close quarters environments. If you are limited to 50 yards then there is no ballistic reason to go longer, in fact shorter may be something you want to consider.
As for noise? I don't really think that you are going to find any real increase in decibels by going with a short barrel vs a 16 inch. It might seem louder since the sound is coming a few inches closer to you the shooter.
You are shooting a freaking centre fire rifle cartridge in a freakin indoor range. It's going to be LOUD regardless. Use ear plugs AND muffs and be happy.
BTW - if noise is a consideration, you could go for a pistol calibre (9mm) or even rimfire. Just sayin'
BTW again - AR's are sort of addictive to many. Betcha can't buy just one
heavenIsAlie
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Abbotsford
20-50m you might as well just buy one in .22 or 9mm and shoot twice as much
- Location
- 54°52'56"N 112°10'7"W Alpha Bravo
Some food for thought,
Questar has lower pricing on the entire LMT line. Standard defender models are priced really well. If your looking to come in at a higher end range, the MRP models are priced extremely well. They also have 10" 14.5" and 16" models in stock.
I would really recommend the MRP model based on the fact that you can quick change barrel lengths and calibers within seconds (two bolts) It's essentially a do it all rifle. I can't stress enough how good a buy these are right now, I paid 1750 for just an upper and my buddy paid about 2600 for the complete rifle IIRC.
Additionally you can rest assured that although LMT is an American brand, their Canadian customer service via Questar is second to none. They're one of the few US manufacturers that care about the Canadian market.
Also the LMT brand is t**s.
Good Luck
Questar has lower pricing on the entire LMT line. Standard defender models are priced really well. If your looking to come in at a higher end range, the MRP models are priced extremely well. They also have 10" 14.5" and 16" models in stock.
I would really recommend the MRP model based on the fact that you can quick change barrel lengths and calibers within seconds (two bolts) It's essentially a do it all rifle. I can't stress enough how good a buy these are right now, I paid 1750 for just an upper and my buddy paid about 2600 for the complete rifle IIRC.
Additionally you can rest assured that although LMT is an American brand, their Canadian customer service via Questar is second to none. They're one of the few US manufacturers that care about the Canadian market.
Also the LMT brand is t**s.
Good Luck
- Location
- 54°52'56"N 112°10'7"W Alpha Bravo
Shooting at 20-50m with a CQB AR has resulted in some of the funnest times I've ever spent at a range.
Well, JasonP...
Here is where I would recommend taking a close look at the AR's being brought in chambered for .22 LR.
They can be had from many of the fine sponsors you find at the top.
My logic is this;
Your maximum distance is going to be 20-50m on a bench during rifle night. Now if you were going a different route, I would recommend different, but your wants dictate an inexpensive rifle that will still be of decent quality and at those ranges, you still want a bit of a challenge, a properly wielded AR will single hole all night long at those distances in those conditions. Besides, you really can't beat the cost of .22 compared to the cost of .223/5.56N...
You will still get the feel of the AR and the controls are all the same.
Here is where I would recommend taking a close look at the AR's being brought in chambered for .22 LR.
They can be had from many of the fine sponsors you find at the top.
My logic is this;
Your maximum distance is going to be 20-50m on a bench during rifle night. Now if you were going a different route, I would recommend different, but your wants dictate an inexpensive rifle that will still be of decent quality and at those ranges, you still want a bit of a challenge, a properly wielded AR will single hole all night long at those distances in those conditions. Besides, you really can't beat the cost of .22 compared to the cost of .223/5.56N...
You will still get the feel of the AR and the controls are all the same.
