.270 Win and the legendary Swede.

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philthygeezer

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How come I always get to read about the giant animals that Europeans are leveling with the 6.5x55 Swede, and then always seem to read that 130 grain .270 loads are too light for said critters, and that one should be shooting 150s or a .30 caliber, or a magnum 7 mm or .338 or some such?

If the 6.5x55 can do all these magical things, then why do people (the same people?) feel the 130 grain .270 is underpowered and underweight for those same tasks?
 
I think the moose in Europe must be smaller, weaker and have thinner hides due to a succession of socialist governments there. The Swede's reputation was made with that very long for calibre 160 grain roundnose which is a great load for penetration much like the 7x57 and it's 175 grain roundnose.
 
What helped make the Swede legendary was it's performance with heavy-for-caliber bullets. The 6.5x55 was often loaded with 156 grain bullets which would penetrate very deeply. Even with 140 grain bullets the sectional density is impressive. A much better comparison would be a .270 with 150 grain (vs. 130) bullets.
 
Because the Swede is commonly loaded with long-for-caliber 140 to 160 grain projectiles, giving it a higher sectional density and thus deeper penetration than a 130 .277 bullet. Up the .277 bullet weight to a 150 to get near the 6.5's sectional density, and you'll enjoy the same benefit.

Edit: 3 responses with roughly the same answer, there ya go. I should stop posting from work, people keep interrupting me!
 
6.5 155gr bullets have excellent sectional density

Important points to remember:
  1. High sectional density bullets have excellent killing power (they penetrate deeply and reach vitals)
  2. Only full powered (156gr - 2500fps) loads are legal for moose in Sweden
  3. European mooses are smaller than North American mooses (like cars)

To kill large game you simply need good sectional density.
.277 130gr has good sectional density (great for deer)
.277 150gr has very good sectional density (good for larger moose)
.264 155gr has good-excellent sectional density (excellent for smaller moose)

Load .277 160gr Nosler Partition and you'll get serious large game killing power (a little better than .284 160gr bullet).

Alex
 
Swedish moose hunters actually must pass a shooting test on a MOVING moose silhouette.
And Swedish moose are not smaller than the majority of Canadian moose. Smaller than the Yukon/Alaska moose, though.
 
Jack O'Connor only knocked down about 15 Moose with a 270 and 130 gr. bullets so I doubt that penetration is a big problem..especially with todays bullets.

I have both and would not hesitate to take a lung shot..given the choice I would use a 150gr. bullet for the 270.
 
Kilo Charlie said:
Swedish moose hunters actually must pass a shooting test on a MOVING moose silhouette.
And Swedish moose are not smaller than the majority of Canadian moose. Smaller than the Yukon/Alaska moose, though.
Click to expand...

They are generally smaller than all moose in North America except perhaps Newfoundland moose.

Swedes use the 6.5 extensively due to it being their military caliber, no other reason, ie. cheap ammo and rifles.
Many Swedes actually prefer the 9.3x62 or 308 and the 6.5 is not used extensively in other European countries. Sorry to rain on everyone's 6.5 parade.
 
bearkilr said:
They are generally smaller than all moose in North America except perhaps Newfoundland moose.

Swedes use the 6.5 extensively due to it being their military caliber, no other reason, ie. cheap ammo and rifles.
Many Swedes actually prefer the 9.3x62 or 308 and the 6.5 is not used extensively in other European countries. Sorry to rain on everyone's 6.5 parade.
Click to expand...

As a follow up on this, these are stats from a professional hunting guide in Northern Quebec from my hunter and angler club :

Moose shot with 270 Win 150gr Nosler Partition
  1. 28 killed and recovered
  2. 3 shot and never recovered
  3. effective range seems to be 200 yards as many of the moose not recovered were shot past 200 yards

He refuses to buy/use anything with a higher recoil or less accuracy than his current 270 Win 150gr load.
Interestingly, this year he's moving to 308 Win 165gr TSX for:
  • better accuracy
  • lower recoil
  • better killing power.
I bought a 270WSM instead of a 300WSM or 325WSM because of his experience.

Alex
 
bearkilr said:
They are generally smaller than all moose in North America except perhaps Newfoundland moose.
Click to expand...

Psst, "Newfoundland moose" (Alces alces americana) are from New Brunswick, which curiously enough, is also host to "New Brunswick moose" (also Alces alces americana). :p And, while most folks will acknowledge that B.C. moose (for example) tend to be bigger than those from Eastern Canada, Boone & Crockett doesn't make a distinction. Shiras moose (Alces alces shirasi) tend to be smaller than either of them.
 
AlexF said:
As a follow up on this, these are stats from a professional hunting guide in Northern Quebec from my hunter and angler club :

Moose shot with 270 Win 150gr Nosler Partition
  1. 28 killed and recovered
  2. 3 shot and never recovered
  3. effective range seems to be 200 yards as many of the moose not recovered were shot past 200 yards

He refuses to buy/use anything with a higher recoil or less accuracy than his current 270 Win 150gr load.
Interestingly, this year he's moving to 308 Win 165gr TSX for:
  • better accuracy
  • lower recoil
  • better killing power.
I bought a 270WSM instead of a 300WSM or 325WSM because of his experience.

Alex
Click to expand...

Ummm, so all the hunters he's guided use a 270 with 150 Partitions? Or are these ones he personally shot?
The "long range" wounding has little to do with caliber I assume and more with mi####s being more common the further the distance.
I don't get the accuracy claims. There is no difference in a hunting situation as a general rule btw 270 and 308.
Your post makes little sense.
 
CV32 said:
Psst, "Newfoundland moose" (Alces alces americana) are from New Brunswick, which curiously enough, is also host to "New Brunswick moose" (also Alces alces americana). :p And, while most folks will acknowledge that B.C. moose (for example) tend to be bigger than those from Eastern Canada, Boone & Crockett doesn't make a distinction. Shiras moose (Alces alces shirasi) tend to be smaller than either of them.
Click to expand...

There "may" be some inbreeding going on since they originally introduced 4, hence the reason NB moose are larger. While B&C doesn't make a distinction, taxonomically they are a subspecies to the western moose(Alces alces andersoni).

I beg to differ on the Shiras moose, I've seen some dandies.
 
Owning both and shooting both in excellent rifles, I can say that they are very close. The 270 has a bit more felt recoil. It is based on the 30-06 after all. The 6.5x55 is much easier to take. Both are very level shooters. But you do have to find the right load for your gun. I have one for the 270 and am very close on the 6.5x55. I would not be afraid to shoot at anything in Canada. I think both could be used beyond 300 yards with success. I personally can't shoot that well and would only try out to 200.

But that is me and not the calibers.
 
Sorry for a long post!

bearkilr said:
Ummm, so all the hunters he's guided use a 270 with 150 Partitions? Or are these ones he personally shot?
The "long range" wounding has little to do with caliber I assume and more with mis**ts being more common the further the distance.
I don't get the accuracy claims. There is no difference in a hunting situation as a general rule btw 270 and 308.
Your post makes little sense.
Click to expand...

!!!!Sorry about the long reply!!!

Some clarifications: our club moose hunting guru (over 35 years of experience) tried many possible loads with a 270 Win and found that the best combo was 270 Win 150gr Partition with something like 90% success.

The stats themselves are from the guide and the member of his groups which used 270 Win 150gr Partition following his recommendation, of course most members of the group use another cartridge and some 270 Win hunter don't care about his recommendation but most do listen.

He has stats for other cartridges and bullets but unfortunately it's very clear that he was only interested in finding the "best" 270 moose load or finding something better than his "magical" combo.

From his experience in the field, high recoil cartridges like 300 Win Mag and 338 Win Mag don't work well at all in the hands of average hunters.
Also, the 270 Win 150gr load does not work that well past 200 yards but is extremely effective at closer range (this might only be related to shooting skill).

Finally, after years of observation, he his convinced that 308 Win 165 TSX is better than 270 Win 150gr Partition. This is based on anecdote and what he saw in the field in the last years (lots of 308 Win, lots of TSX used with great success, therefore 380 Win TSX must be great) and the fact that many of the club member have Savage, Tikka, Sako or custom 308 Win which can shot 1/2 - 3/4 MOA 5 shot groups with premium hunting ammo.

The evidence is so good that he's making the jump and will use a 308 Win Sako shooting 165 TSX reloads. He planned to buy a TRG22 but found it somewhat "non-lightweight" ;)

I have a somewhat different opinion based on shooting too much, some analysis and not enough experience.
I hunt with a 270 WSM which I see as the modern successor to the "optimal" 7 Rem Mag.

At the club, we spent all of our non-shooting time discussing hunting, shooting and the outdoors!

Again, I apologize for the very long post!

Alex
 
AlexF said:
!!!!Sorry about the long reply!!!

Some clarifications: our club moose hunting guru (over 35 years of experience) tried many possible loads with a 270 Win and found that the best combo was 270 Win 150gr Partition with something like 90% success.

The stats themselves are from the guide and the member of his groups which used 270 Win 150gr Partition following his recommendation, of course most members of the group use another cartridge and some 270 Win hunter don't care about his recommendation but most do listen.

He has stats for other cartridges and bullets but unfortunately it's very clear that he was only interested in finding the "best" 270 moose load or finding something better than his "magical" combo.

From his experience in the field, high recoil cartridges like 300 Win Mag and 338 Win Mag don't work well at all in the hands of average hunters.
Also, the 270 Win 150gr load does not work that well past 200 yards but is extremely effective at closer range (this might only be related to shooting skill).

Finally, after years of observation, he his convinced that 308 Win 165 TSX is better than 270 Win 150gr Partition. This is based on anecdote and what he saw in the field in the last years (lots of 308 Win, lots of TSX used with great success, therefore 380 Win TSX must be great) and the fact that many of the club member have Savage, Tikka, Sako or custom 308 Win which can shot 1/2 - 3/4 MOA 5 shot groups with premium hunting ammo.

The evidence is so good that he's making the jump and will use a 308 Win Sako shooting 165 TSX reloads. He planned to buy a TRG22 but found it somewhat "non-lightweight" ;)

I have a somewhat different opinion based on shooting too much, some analysis and not enough experience.
I hunt with a 270 WSM which I see as the modern successor to the "optimal" 7 Rem Mag.

At the club, we spent all of our non-shooting time discussing hunting, shooting and the outdoors!

Again, I apologize for the very long post!

Alex
Click to expand...
No problem about the longer post, I understand now. :)

I agree the Nosler Partition is one of the best, if not the best, bullet ever designed.
 
AlexF said:
From his experience in the field, high recoil cartridges like 300 Win Mag and 338 Win Mag don't work well at all in the hands of average hunters.
Also, the 270 Win 150gr load does not work that well past 200 yards but is extremely effective at closer range (this might only be related to shooting skill).
Click to expand...

This guide saw the same sorts of things:

http://montanaelkhunting.########.com/2009/06/7mm-remington-magnum.html
http://montanaelkhunting.########.com/2009/03/got-flinch.html
http://montanaelkhunting.########.com/2009/12/270-winchester-for-elk-hunting.html
 
AlexF said:
!!!!Sorry about the long reply!!!

Some clarifications: our club moose hunting guru (over 35 years of experience) tried many possible loads with a 270 Win and found that the best combo was 270 Win 150gr Partition with something like 90% success.

The stats themselves are from the guide and the member of his groups which used 270 Win 150gr Partition following his recommendation, of course most members of the group use another cartridge and some 270 Win hunter don't care about his recommendation but most do listen.

He has stats for other cartridges and bullets but unfortunately it's very clear that he was only interested in finding the "best" 270 moose load or finding something better than his "magical" combo.

From his experience in the field, high recoil cartridges like 300 Win Mag and 338 Win Mag don't work well at all in the hands of average hunters.
Also, the 270 Win 150gr load does not work that well past 200 yards but is extremely effective at closer range (this might only be related to shooting skill).

Finally, after years of observation, he his convinced that 308 Win 165 TSX is better than 270 Win 150gr Partition. This is based on anecdote and what he saw in the field in the last years (lots of 308 Win, lots of TSX used with great success, therefore 380 Win TSX must be great) and the fact that many of the club member have Savage, Tikka, Sako or custom 308 Win which can shot 1/2 - 3/4 MOA 5 shot groups with premium hunting ammo.

The evidence is so good that he's making the jump and will use a 308 Win Sako shooting 165 TSX reloads. He planned to buy a TRG22 but found it somewhat "non-lightweight" ;)

I have a somewhat different opinion based on shooting too much, some analysis and not enough experience.
I hunt with a 270 WSM which I see as the modern successor to the "optimal" 7 Rem Mag.

At the club, we spent all of our non-shooting time discussing hunting, shooting and the outdoors!

Again, I apologize for the very long post!

Alex
Click to expand...


What kind of results has he seen with the 270win and a 130gr TSX at 3100fps?
 
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