What would you buy for a starter .223? Remington 700 Tactical or Savage 10FP
- Thread starter Ryan500
- Start date
xring_assassin
Regular
- Location
- Rocky Mountain House, Alberta
I own a couple savage 223 with factory 9 twist barrels. Both are more accurate than I am "out of the box" - the remmy i own took bedding, trigger job, and some machining to make it happy....all that money and it doesn't match the savages I picked up for $650 brand new and the other was $450 used....
If you reload, and think you'll eventually want to stretch your legs past 500 yards (I've earned a bronze medal shooting a 1:12 twist Rem 700 SPS Varmint at 400 yards), you'll best be served by a 1:7 twist Savage shooting the heavies (75 - 90gr bullets). Look up MysticPlayer (Jerry Teo) at Mystic Precision and see what he's doing with his.
My buddy purchased the VLP DM, and the rifle is competitive at 1000 yards.
If you're not a reloader, the 1:9 twist is a good choice (because a lot of factory ammo tops out around 60ish grains), and like I said, if the 1:12 gets me out to 400 yards, the 1:9 will serve you well.
I like the feel and style of Remington rifles. Unfortunately, I've only been "satisfied" with my SPS Varmint, and I may never buy another Remington again. It doesn't give me the warm fuzzies that I get when handling a truly quality firearm like my Browning sporter, or even my new Savage LRP, but the Remington is a "functional" firearm. I realize the two others are almost 2x the price of the Savage, but even the expensive Remingtons now have that crappy rough finish on them that caused me most of my grief.
Once you shoot out the barrel on a Savage, it's just a matter of screwing another one on. Savages are slightly more homely-looking compared to the sleeker Remingtons, but I think overall they are the better choice.
My buddy purchased the VLP DM, and the rifle is competitive at 1000 yards.
If you're not a reloader, the 1:9 twist is a good choice (because a lot of factory ammo tops out around 60ish grains), and like I said, if the 1:12 gets me out to 400 yards, the 1:9 will serve you well.
I like the feel and style of Remington rifles. Unfortunately, I've only been "satisfied" with my SPS Varmint, and I may never buy another Remington again. It doesn't give me the warm fuzzies that I get when handling a truly quality firearm like my Browning sporter, or even my new Savage LRP, but the Remington is a "functional" firearm. I realize the two others are almost 2x the price of the Savage, but even the expensive Remingtons now have that crappy rough finish on them that caused me most of my grief.
Once you shoot out the barrel on a Savage, it's just a matter of screwing another one on. Savages are slightly more homely-looking compared to the sleeker Remingtons, but I think overall they are the better choice.
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
How times change...
A few years back a post like this would have been bombarded with alot of neg comments towards anything Savage.
And the virtues of the Rem.
Now, 3/4 vote for the Savage over the Rem. in a factory format.
Hopefully, the big shots at Rem are getting it and will move their company in a better direction.
Jerry
A few years back a post like this would have been bombarded with alot of neg comments towards anything Savage.
And the virtues of the Rem.
Now, 3/4 vote for the Savage over the Rem. in a factory format.
Hopefully, the big shots at Rem are getting it and will move their company in a better direction.
Jerry
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
Wouldn't it be sweet to just walk in and know that rifle on the rack, be it Remington or Savage, would be as good as it could be!
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Indeed, it would be nice.
Jerry
Jerry
Absolutley right there Jerry! I recently have been in the market for a HB Varminter. Although my mind was set on a Savage, I did handle a 700 VTR that was on the consignment rack. Heck, even a Stevens 200 is better constructed. Anyhow, I ended up buying Stranger's 12FVSS here on the EE forum. When I saw the price of $550.00, his statement that it was in VG+ condition and his impecable trader rating of 195, I jumped on it without even seeing pictures. In the meantime, others missed out on it because they were asking a bunch of question. Picked it up last wednesday in Calgary along with some scary nice 200 yard targets and his recipe for success. I have a feeling that anything new Remington won't even come close to this "like new" 12FVSS. And Jerry, you'll be happy to know that I scoped it with a Sightron SII Big Sky in 36x42 with the fine crosshairs....a recipe to put me in the money I think. I've got some 69gr SMK's on order. Stranger even told me that if I didn't like it, he'd buy it back from me.....how could I not like this rig. Thanks bud, your trader ratings precede you.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
When Savage was 'retooled', the top decided to go after the accuracy part of the equation and alot of effort was put into making the action and barrels as good as possible for the money. In that process, they have changed alot of how they make their rifles. Ironically, faster, cheaper also ended being BETTER.
I have discussed the new Axis/Edge with a machinist who looked at the action. All he saw was top grade CNC work tooled for precision, repeatability AND speed. A bunch of parts have been dropped vs the orig Savage action. Parts not included don't cost anything AND dont weigh anything. With a standard scope, my rifle is just over 6lbs and I can make it lighter!!!!
Pumping out $350 RETAIL rifles that shoot is quite a feat AND Savage is making money on every one.
So are at least 2 hands.....
Except for a few rough spots that can be tweaked, I feel the Axis has some of the best features in a hunting rifle you can buy. It really does work well.
Rem unfortunately comes out with the 710 family which hasn't exactly turned the hunting world on its ear. I just think that there is so much stale management at Rem that not much new can blossom.
Got their new 2011 catalog and was looking through to see what if anything would convince me to try a Rem. Their ongoing effort at improving the rifle - triangular barrels that if you can believe, has a patent pending. OMG....
If you have the catalog, look at their CUSTOM page. The pic has a couple of pretty blued walnut stocked rifles sitting in a rack with test groups. I can only assume that the test groups were shot AFTER the rifle was tuned.
For a many dollar custom rifle, those test groups are HORRID and if I got that, I would sending that rifle back. Groups were at or larger then 1" with many flyers.
If that is what REM quality means at a hand massaged custom level, the generic rifle is in deep trouble.
Jerry
I have discussed the new Axis/Edge with a machinist who looked at the action. All he saw was top grade CNC work tooled for precision, repeatability AND speed. A bunch of parts have been dropped vs the orig Savage action. Parts not included don't cost anything AND dont weigh anything. With a standard scope, my rifle is just over 6lbs and I can make it lighter!!!!
Pumping out $350 RETAIL rifles that shoot is quite a feat AND Savage is making money on every one.
So are at least 2 hands.....
Except for a few rough spots that can be tweaked, I feel the Axis has some of the best features in a hunting rifle you can buy. It really does work well.
Rem unfortunately comes out with the 710 family which hasn't exactly turned the hunting world on its ear. I just think that there is so much stale management at Rem that not much new can blossom.
Got their new 2011 catalog and was looking through to see what if anything would convince me to try a Rem. Their ongoing effort at improving the rifle - triangular barrels that if you can believe, has a patent pending. OMG....
If you have the catalog, look at their CUSTOM page. The pic has a couple of pretty blued walnut stocked rifles sitting in a rack with test groups. I can only assume that the test groups were shot AFTER the rifle was tuned.
For a many dollar custom rifle, those test groups are HORRID and if I got that, I would sending that rifle back. Groups were at or larger then 1" with many flyers.
If that is what REM quality means at a hand massaged custom level, the generic rifle is in deep trouble.
Jerry
I did lots of shopping myself before I owned my first rifle. This would have been 4 years ago. I walked into my local gun shop and 3 out of the 4 guys working were handing me Remingtons and Brownings. The Brownings I though were "old man" guns that look good in camps and this was reflected in the price (sorry folks but these were my thoughts at the time ... I do a lot of skeet now and have a new appreciation for them). The Remingtons I couldn't help but feel were just sh*t, with heavy bolts, rough paint and metal finish etc. I finally pointed at a rifle on the rack and asked "what about that one", it was a Tikka T3 and compared to the others it out-shined the others 10 fold in the quality of the bold, machining, finish, everything ... and it shoots.
Oh, and the 4th guy at the gun shop ... he kept whispering into my ear "Savage! They are tack drivers!". 4 years later and I just bought a Savage and I am quite pleased with it, and it shoots too.
Oh, and the 4th guy at the gun shop ... he kept whispering into my ear "Savage! They are tack drivers!". 4 years later and I just bought a Savage and I am quite pleased with it, and it shoots too.
Wow, this thread has all the makings of a Savage circle jerk...
Perhaps, you can explain to me why timing the bolt and ball bearing modifications are so commonly performed by guys who own Savages/Steevens if the rifles are so utterly flawless and smooth? FWIW, I think you bought the better platform the first time around.
Perhaps, you can explain to me why timing the bolt and ball bearing modifications are so commonly performed by guys who own Savages/Steevens if the rifles are so utterly flawless and smooth? FWIW, I think you bought the better platform the first time around.
