Ethical Question. Do you kill a female bear with a cub?

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Just because the regs don't say you can't, it doesn't mean it's a good idea.

As an example, the ontario regs do not list a minimum caliber for big game. So, it would be perfectly legal to go moose hunting with a .17rem, or a custom .25acp rifle...
 
Canadian_Zuk said:
I'm pretty sure that would be illegal in ontario, it would most likely fall under harassing wildlife.
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That may well be so, however, it has worked in a few instances and to my way of thinking and in those circumstances, there's usually two options. Living in the area in that photo and up there for hunting trips since I moved away, on occasion in dealing with a 'problem' and not necessarily wanting to put a Bear down, that's the route I've taken. In a couple of instances, I've asked the park warden located close by to deal with a situation and after basically getting a verbal run around, I delt with it. With one single Bear that showed little fear and was somewhat aggressive, I put it down. In the area of my cabin, that's amounted to one Bear in about 40 + years. Really, for the most part, I want nothing to do with Bears. I'm just not interested. But, if I have to deal with them, again, there's two options.
 
Would you shoot a cow moose with a calf,of course you would!Would you eat a cow that had spring calves,of coarse you would!Would you shoot a doe with fawns,of coarse you would!Perhaps the question should be,do we really need to shoot anything?
 
The regulations do state minimum calibers,just more bad internet info(posted by a uninformed poster)read them again and re post the correct info!
 
No, the Ontario regs do not state a minimum. I guess the CO that I was discussing this with is also uninformed...

All it says is that it must be centrefire. Perhaps you should eat yourself? (HA! Eat crow...Get it?) :rolleyes:
 
In 30 years of actively hunting bears in Ontario I never knew personally or even heard of anyone who intentionally shot a nursing sow - spring or fall - here in Ontario. That said, I'm guessing it has occurred - but it has never been illegal to do so. Bears were varmints here not too long ago with bounties paid on them. An old timer this week was remembering to me those times and the extra money he and his brother made stacking bears up like cord wood. That mindset is mostly gone now I think - replaced with the idea of the bear as a worthy big game animal and table fare.

I also believe the spring orphaned bear cubs senario conveniently ascribed to hunters in the media was mostly trumped up in the media to stop the spring hunt. Road kills in reality accounted for a lot of - if not most - actually orphaned cubs I think.
 
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Whelen B said:
In 30 years of actively hunting bears in Ontario I never knew personally or even heard of anyone who intentionally shot a nursing sow - spring or fall - here in Ontario. That said, I'm guessing it has occurred - but it has never been illegal to do so. Bears were varmints here not too long ago with bounties paid on them. An old timer this week was remembering to me those times and the extra money he and his brother made stacking bears up like cord wood. That mindset is mostly gone now I think - replaced with the idea of the bear as a worthy big game animal and table fare.
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I don't think sows are still nurseing in the fall??
But I could be wrong.
As far as shooting one, like it or not they are nothing but an overpopulated destructive nuisance if you have an apple orchard. I could care less what gender they are, SSS till the numbers get back in sync.
 
My what a turn this has taken. If I weren't personally opposed to killing the sow, I might consider it.

The trolling aside, I thank everyone for their input.

I will give the MNR a call on Monday and get a confirmation either way.

Two of my best friends, who have a lifetime of hunting here in Northern Ontario, have told me that it is legal to hunt sows with cubs. But as I said before, I still like to check when I am not sure.

Hence the reason for me "strange question"
 
Remember, the pdf of the Ontario regulation booklet everyone keeps posting (but not quoting the relevant paragraphs) is only a summary of the complete regulations.

If it is not covered in the summary, it may be somewhere in the full regulations. Someone who is interested may want to search them and post a quote from them, if there is such a regulation.



How to Use this Summary

This is a summary of information dealing with hunting licences and
hunting laws. This summary is neither a legal document nor a complete
collection of the current regulations.

It is meant to be a convenient reference only.

For complete details, see:

a) the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997, and the regulations made under this act;

b) the Migratory Birds Convention Act (Canada) and the Migratory Birds Regulations;

c) the Endangered Species Act, 2007, and the regulations made under this act; see Species at Risk page 16;

d) the Species at Risk Act (Canada), with regard to federally listed species that are threatened, endangered or extirpated and their critical habitat; and

e) the Trespass to Property Act.

Each game wildlife species or group of game species has a section in this summary. Each section deals with basic regulations on hunting the species, including open season tables (showing when and where you can hunt that species). The maps that show Wildlife Management Unit (WMU) boundaries appear on pages 6 to 11 of this summary.

See the Definitions on pages 86-87 for an explanation of terms found throughout this summary. You can obtain specific details of the regulations, including more accurate descriptions of Wildlife Management Unit boundaries, at ontario.ca/hunting.
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DMV. Thanks for the post. I checked the the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997 and could not find anything about the sow and cubs. I don't think the others apply.

Any other places you can think to look?

I have spent several hours on the mnr website but found nothing about the legality.
 
tbrwlf said:
DMV. Thanks for the post. I checked the the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997 and could not find anything about the sow and cubs. I don't think the others apply.

Any other places you can think to look?

I have spent several hours on the mnr website but found nothing about the legality.
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I have never looked it up myself, as I would not target a sow with cubs anyway.

Ethics aside, it is a huge public relations issue here in Ont. For years there have been stories in papers about orphaned bear cubs and how hunters are responsible. That was one of the excuses for cancelling the Spring Bear Hunt.

Remember: "Perception is Reality" to the masses.
 
dmv said:
For years there have been stories in papers about orphaned bear cubs and how hunters are responsible. That was one of the excuses for cancelling the Spring Bear Hunt.
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i remember reading about the spring hunt cancellation quite a bit and i seem to remember most studies found 25-30% of bears shot in the spring were sows. even if only half of those sows had cubs, that's quite a few cubs that were left to find food and fend off other bears on their own. it was a good idea to cancel the spring hunt for that reason even though it has caused an inconvenience for some people.

but, i guess i probably think different than some of you guys as i'm more concerned about conserving wildlife than how much damage bear, deer, elk, etc cause for farmers. having wildlife around for my future grandchildren is far more important than farmers losing money today. they have insurance for a reason. the animals were here first. if you don't like it, move.

legal or not, you shouldn't even consider shooting a female of any species that is still tending to her young.
 
canadian hunter312 said:
i remember reading about the spring hunt cancellation quite a bit and i seem to remember most studies found 25-30% of bears shot in the spring were sows. even if only half of those sows had cubs, that's quite a few cubs that were left to find food and fend off other bears on their own. it was a good idea to cancel the spring hunt for that reason even though it has caused an inconvenience for some people.
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So by your reasoning, 10-15% of bears shot in Ontario during the now closed spring season were sows with cubs. Not likely, considering it was illegal to shoot a sow with cubs during the spring season.

It was not a good idea to close the spring season. I`m willing to bet there`s information out there showing that there are far more sows with cubs shot by MNR staff now due to nuisance reports than there ever were through hunting.
 
bearkilr said:
So by your reasoning, 10-15% of bears shot in Ontario during the now closed spring season were sows with cubs. Not likely, considering it was illegal to shoot a sow with cubs during the spring season.

It was not a good idea to close the spring season. I`m willing to bet there`s information out there showing that there are far more sows with cubs shot by MNR staff now due to nuisance reports than there ever were through hunting.
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they claimed that 25-30% were sows and i'll assume it's nearly impossible to know how many actually had cubs or not. although she'll usually stay close to the cubs, it doesn't always happen and you may see a lone sow, mistake it for a boar, and end up leaving orphaned cubs in the bush. it would be different if there was a definitive way for even the dumbest of dumb-dumbs to ID the ###. a spring boar hunt would be easy, but they're worried about people shooting sows and it makes sense when you consider how many "hunters" out there are so trigger happy.

btw...i never said anything about sows with cubs, you added that part ;)
 
BigUglyMan said:
I can't imagine it being legal anywhere. Not to mention unethical. Possibly the stupidest question I've seen on here in a long time.
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I Agree,

If you have to ask this question in the first place then I question if you have any morals/ethics.

A hunt doesn't have to end with something dying to be successful.
 
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