Notice to S&W M&P 15-22 Rifle Owners
- Thread starter Questar
- Start date
True that!!
Signed for my letter today---guess i'll turn mine in for destruction , & stick to the 50 round Black dogs ! What a Gong Show !!
If only they could go after criminals with the same enthusiasm and tenacity as they do with this whole ordeal, Canada would be THAT much safer for everyone already!
It's funny yet very sad at the same time... Harassing law abiding citizens because we are easy targets. Solving real crimes would just be too much work for them.
It's funny yet very sad at the same time... Harassing law abiding citizens because we are easy targets. Solving real crimes would just be too much work for them.
I would too. Please report back here when you find out.
Seems to me that someone who tried to comply with the law by destroying the mags is in for more hassle than someone who just kept them.
Mine were in the shop for warranty service, along with the rifle, when the reclassification took place and were not returned to me. When I called CFC this morning they requested me to have the shop confirm that by fax. So I called the shop and they will advise the CFC accordingly.
If someone had simply destroyed or disposed of the mags they would have no official record of doing so. I don't know what CFC's next step will be.
This whole situation is so asinine it beggars the imagination.
correct...i destroyed mine, and got 10 round magazines. i can even have a PC verify it if possible. im not sure if that is acceptable.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
According to the CFC, I s**t you not, you're supposed to take your rifle and the ten-round magazines into the cop shop to have them verified. I tried explaining the rules of evidence to them but they weren't impressed. The CFO definitely wasn't impressed, they point blank said they wouldn't issue an ATT to do it.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
That's exactly what I said to the desk officer at the police station and she said she couldn't believe what a big deal they were making out of .22 rifle magazines.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
Then you have to take your rifle and current mags in to have them verified, which proves what, exactly?
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
So anyway, the guy they've got on the phone today seems to actually know what the difference between a rifle and a magazine is, so I gave him the CPS case# and he said he'd try and get the info from CPS directly, which obviously is a more sensible bloody approach than having us all take our rifles down to the police station!
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
The basic mistake the CFC made was not notifying everyone immediately. They notified the CFOs a year ago, they should have notified us as well. A year later people have sold them, scrapped them, lost them, etc. How do you prove the non-existence of something?
I very nearly did throw them in the bin, the only reason I didn't was because I had other stuff I wanted to turn in at the same time.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
It's not mythical, I've seen them. Totally stupid product but I'm sure S&W didn't realize the amount of crap it would cause. Really the people at fault in this whole mess are North Sylva Co. for selling prohibited devices, but having said that the CFC have dealt with it very badly by being so slow to follow up on it and the law is barking mad, I mean, NORTH SYLVA CO. doesn't understand it, these are the S&W importers for the whole of Canada.
It completely took me by surprise as well. The law is just not capable of being understood rationally, needs to be changed, and the mag rules are regulations so it would only take a statutory instrument to change it.
I both emailed and faxed off my stuff yesterday. I was asked to be able to produce a reciept for the 10 rounders I have. Luckily Questar was able to send me an email copy of a reciept for a puchase made late last year! Like who would keep a reciept for a purchace of a magazine?
So I guess I'll give them a ring again next week to make sure everything is propery noted. It's just a nagging itch I have that even though I sent them all information requested, that it doesn't get added to our file/licence/registration what ever they're keeping on this.
So I guess I'll give them a ring again next week to make sure everything is propery noted. It's just a nagging itch I have that even though I sent them all information requested, that it doesn't get added to our file/licence/registration what ever they're keeping on this.
I wonder if the CFC is exceeding its legal authority in demanding receipts for a product (10 rnd mag) that is non-restricted and non-registered. (And which, even if you have them, proves nothing with respect to the prohibited devices.) If any of the gun orgs were worth the price of admission they would be analyzing this question as we speak. Not to mention protesting to government the threatening tone of Nicole Boucher's letter.
The cork obviously can't be put back into the bottle. Since magazines are not registered no one knows who had them or how many. Proving that one is destroyed or pinned says nothing about others which someone may have owned.
This whole letter thing is a CYA exercise by the CFC. Bureaucratic organizations, especially law enforcement ones, hate nothing more than looking like fools in front of their boss. The CFC's ultimate boss, Vic Toews, is of course too dense to understand the situation. He simply laps up the pablum the RCMP feeds him and smiles dimly. However, there is the risk that this debacle could come to the attention of Stephen Harper. That could cause something very unpleasant smelling to flow downhill and land on the desk of the classification section. They want to be able to claim that everything's A-OK, sir, not to worry, sir, small glitch but we've got it under control, sir.
Anyone that purchased one of these from me feel free to drop me a pm if you have any qns. I'll try to check as often as I can over the next few days. Anyone else that didn't and is local feel free to stop by the store with your pinned mags, registration number and serial number and I'll fax the CFO to verify they are pinned.
Ryan
Ryan
Chuckbuster
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Mine came with 10 rounders . I was told that I have to contact the seller, have that information verified and sent to them (RCMP). I'd say they don't know the true situation and are obviously flock shooting in hopes of hitting something. The whole thing stinks of an intimidation campaign to give the appearance of usefulness; taking care of those "gun criminals" and by doing so, preventing a truck load of "gun crime".
A legal opinion on this point would be very pertinent. The Criminal Code requires you to notify law enforcement "with reasonable despatch" if a prohibited device is lost, stolen or destroyed. I see nothing there that requires you to prove that you possess a legal, non-restricted, non-registered product. Would any lawyers out there care to share their views?
I have a slightly different take on this. I don't think this was a deliberately provocative campaign. I think they were backed into it by their own mistakes. The classification section takes a very narrow view of their work. They try to interpret and implement the fundamentally absurd CCC regulations which set out classification categories. They don't consider the broader practical and political implications of their decisions.
Their mistake was in not immediately notifying individual owners of the reclassification in late 2010. They probably did not think that this was their responsibility. However, when the political level became aware (through various complaints) that legal gun owners were being unwittingly criminalized, they were likely asked to do something about it. Hence the letters we have all received recently.
The problem is that the scheme they cooked up to stuff the genie back in the bottle is deeply flawed. Their own staff are ignorant of the law and poorly trained. Thus we have all these idiotic demands to verify guns, show receipts for 10 rnd mags, etc. This is all against the background that it is now literally impossible to establish who actually owned the 25 rnders or how many or whether they still exist.
To add insult to injury we have Nicole Boucher's threat to sic the police on any owners who don't comply with their demands, as ridiculous as they are. I interpret this part of the letter more as bureaucratic arrogance than a deliberate campaign of harassment. Nevertheless, it is deeply offensive. Notification is one thing, heavy handed threats are another.
The NRA would never let something like this slip by unchallenged. I don't know why our gun orgs remain so timidly silent. They should be loudly protesting:
a) the original reclassification (which was based on a questionable interpretation of the regs);
b) the failure to notify owners when the reclass took place;
c) the failure to offer compensation to owners;
d) the incompetent CYA operation in progress now;
e) the inappropriate tone of Nicole Boucher's letter;
f) and, of course, the non-sensical CCC regulations which engendered this whole mess.
