What ammo do police forces carry in their pistols?

bollox said:
...... hydra-shoks are the way to go...
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not another one......


I've shamelessly taken this from misanthropists signature, (DocGKR, who is an SME in the field of terminal ballistics). If anyone can find where it says the hydra-shok is a top performer, or 'the way to go', you get a cookie.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

If you're too lazy to read the thread, here's an important part.

"Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 15 or 20 years ago. These older bullets tend to plug up and act like FMJ projectiles when shot through heavy clothing; they also often have significant degradation in terminal performance after first passing through intermediate barriers. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's."
 
Worth copy and pasting.

The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
Remington Golden Saber 124 gr +P JHP bonded (GSB9MMD)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (RA40B/Q4355/S40SWPDB1)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)
 
wicked_police said:
not another one......


I've shamelessly taken this from misanthropists signature, (DocGKR, who is an SME in the field of terminal ballistics). If anyone can find where it says the hydra-shok is a top performer, or 'the way to go', you get a cookie.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

If you're too lazy to read the thread, here's an important part.

"Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 15 or 20 years ago. These older bullets tend to plug up and act like FMJ projectiles when shot through heavy clothing; they also often have significant degradation in terminal performance after first passing through intermediate barriers. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's."
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Sarcasm...... look into it........ Did you read my post?
 
Magic bullets? :confused:

And here I still thought it boiled down to shot placement... :rolleyes:

:p

1aCoffee.gif

NAA.
 
There are no magic bullets. I have shot countless animals including deer, horses, cattle, wild boars (only to name a few) with SXT's and Golden Sabres. More often than not the shots were right in the back of the head to put the animal down (which gets old really fast) and I must say often the results were much less than spectacular out of a 9mm. I have moved to using a shotgun for putting all animals down on the side of the road. It just helps me sleep better at night. Handguns suck for the task no matter what hyper explosive, dumb-dumb, +p load one is using. Now shotguns on the other hand ...
 
enefgee said:
Whatever they can get cheap that also performs well, they'll have an acceptable list of cartridges to choose from, offer to buy a large quantity and let the supplier bid on it. It's sad, but we live in a low bid world.
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Really, how often is bad ammo an issue in police shootings? Is using "cheap" ammo really a significant problem that puts police life in danger?

x amount less spent on ammo, is x amount more that can be spent on body armor, training, better equipment, etc... Everyone has a fixed budget, and it seems to me they put their money where it will have the most benefit.
 
Verdical Driver said:
Really, how often is bad ammo an issue in police shootings? Is using "cheap" ammo really a significant problem that puts police life in danger?

x amount less spent on ammo, is x amount more that can be spent on body armor, training, better equipment, etc... Everyone has a fixed budget, and it seems to me they put their money where it will have the most benefit.
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If it saves one life...
 
GSDX2 said:
If it saves one life...
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No, that is really crazy thinking... It leads to all sorts of crazy decisions. Just about any ridiculous thing could save a life in some extremely unlikely scenario.

The way to analyze it: "Does spending extra for premium ammo save more lives than spending the money on other things". You are assuming that the alternative uses for the money can't/aren't used to purchase things save lives.

So the question I originally asked, was how much additional stopping power does a standard quality 147gr JHP for example have in comparison to a high-end quality one? My guess is not that much, otherwise police departments would be spending the money on it.
 
lol lets hear it from police officers, i know personally of one force that went from 40 cal 180 grain remington golden sabre hp, and has now swiched to 180 grain winchester ranger bonded hp...reason...better penetration when it comes to glass...
Many police forces will practice with 180 grain 40 cal tmj or fmj training ammo to reduce costs, but still carry the same recoil characeristics....i remember a buddy of mine telling me they would practice with regular crappy 38 special fmj ammo with their revolvers, but would carry 38 special +p ammo as duty ammo, and he told me that wow what a difference in recoil it was...they phased out that training regiment after a few years as it was realized that it was not realistic
 
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