Non restricted designated marksman semi-automatic rifles?

Xiao Xiong

Xiao Xiong

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Hello folks, I am new here. I had put a thread in the precision section on this topic but it was suggested to me this is a better place.

I am looking for a rifle that was originally FIELDED by a military as a semi-automatic in roughly the same configuration as civilians can buy. So not an auto that has been altered to be semi, or a semi-auto civilian version where the military version is select fire. I am also looking for something that is NON RESTRICTED so that I can actually carry it around and get some use out of it without a lot of hassle.

From what research I've done so far (google google, I freely admit I am on a big learning curve) these are all typically going to be "designated marksman" type guns, since all other rifles the military fields are generally select fire types.

To give you some examples of what I'm thinking:

M24 / Remington 700, right idea but it's a bolt I am hoping for semi.

M21 / modified M14, right idea but it's an older gun no longer in service.

SR-25, fielded as semi-auto but based on AR-10/AR-15 so presumably restricted???

Those are US examples but I'd be just as happy with a German, Swiss, etc., gun if it was a modern, current in use semi that is fielded that way. I know there are some potentials there but I'm not sure which are non restricted.

Suggestions?
 
Xiao Xiong said:
Hello folks, I am new here. I had put a thread in the precision section on this topic but it was suggested to me this is a better place.

I am looking for a rifle that was originally FIELDED by a military as a semi-automatic in roughly the same configuration as civilians can buy. So not an auto that has been altered to be semi, or a semi-auto civilian version where the military version is select fire. I am also looking for something that is NON RESTRICTED so that I can actually carry it around and get some use out of it without a lot of hassle.

From what research I've done so far (google google, I freely admit I am on a big learning curve) these are all typically going to be "designated marksman" type guns, since all other rifles the military fields are generally select fire types.

To give you some examples of what I'm thinking:

M24 / Remington 700, right idea but it's a bolt I am hoping for semi.

M21 / modified M14, right idea but it's an older gun no longer in service.

SR-25, fielded as semi-auto but based on AR-10/AR-15 so presumably restricted???

Those are US examples but I'd be just as happy with a German, Swiss, etc., gun if it was a modern, current in use semi that is fielded that way. I know there are some potentials there but I'm not sure which are non restricted.

Suggestions?
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Where do you get the the M 14 is not currently in use? In a modified form it is the current DMR of the US Marine Corps.

Essentially if you're looking for a non restricted black rifle you have several options. I think there has been many threads on this. Swiss arms, SL 8, XCR and a few others.

Almost all of these are select fire in their military form. I don't get your thing about not wanting a semi-auto only gun that is full auto in it's military form. Are you looking for autheticity? If you are looking for an authentic military rifle just like a modern soldier would have it you're pretty much limited to a sniper rig of some sort or a Norc M 14 dressed up like a DMR. In the end it's still going to be a rip off and not the real thing.
 
It's already hard enough finding a non-restricted "black rifle", and the pointless restrictions you're putting on it only make it an exercise in futility. Just get something like a Swiss Arms or dressed up M1A and actually shoot it rather than worry about how "authentic" it is.
 
There is a "sniper" version of the Swissarms rifles (very rare, bring lots of cash) and the not quite here yet SAPR - essentially a 7.62 version of the Swissarms. Nextclosest would be the HK SL8 which is a civillian target version of the G36. Most militaries have not followed the 'designated marksman' route.

*Almost forgot, there is a dealer who sells the Type 88 rifle, but chambered in 5.56.
 
cam1936 said:
I don't get your thing about not wanting a semi-auto only gun that is full auto in it's military form.
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That's my own personal thing I guess. I suppose it's emotional. Or ideological.

Ultimately I simply resent the regulations that prevent me from owning a gun that operates the way its designer intended. Given how much money these things cost, I don't want to own a gun that would generate negative feelings and resentment every time I picked it up.

Maybe it's some kind of purity, but seeking out a gun that I can legally own and use that performs exactly the way its designer intended it to perform is perhaps a matter of principle for me.

I recognize that it's my own personal idiosyncratic way of dealing with this, and fully respect the choice of others to try and buy a weapon that is as close as possible to what they really want, but modified in line with the rules.

Anyway I don't want the thread to go off topic on this, you asked why so I told you. I really just want to find the gun I'm looking for!
 
cam1936 said:
Where do you get the the M 14 is not currently in use? In a modified form it is the current DMR of the US Marine Corps.
Click to expand...

Yes that's interesting, and the end that really may be where I end up. You're right, I'd still like to explore what the other options are!

If I went this route I would want to try and make the same sorts of modifications and come up with something similar to what is currently in use. I guess that gets expensive, but any pointers?
 
enefgee said:
There is a "sniper" version of the Swissarms rifles (very rare, bring lots of cash) and the not quite here yet SAPR - essentially a 7.62 version of the Swissarms.
Click to expand...

Yeah I would like to stick to under $5000. Still if there are more expensive versions tell me, even if I can't afford to buy it I can always dream.

I thought the SAPR was a select fire rifle in its military version, though? If not that's interesting...
 
There was a nice accurized M14 variant on the EE (Equipment Exchange) earlier. Was up for $3000 but really tricked out with high end components. Would likely be as close to what you are looking for as anything.

You need to get permission to access this but there are many deals to be had. Especially on Norinco M14 clones that fellas have gotten bored with.

Like others have mentioned you may have to compromise on your stance regarding the rifles original fire mode (select fire vs semi-auto). This can depend how you look at it. The M14 was select fire but its parent, the M1 Garand was semi auto only. A variation of the M14 is in use by the US military; perhaps the M21 and M25, (but I get my info from Call of Duty so dont hold it as gospel truth). I doubt that version is select fire so a customized M14 variant would be very close to replicating a currently used military arm. Plus the .308 Win is a great hunting round to boot.

I totally agree with you regarding restricted vs non-restricted firearms. Would love an AR-15 (or the like) but I dont have a range nearby to take it to. I had a 1911A1 but it stayed locked up for years never shooting it until I sold it. Here in rural SK I shoot in my backyard and surrounding farmland exclusively so restricted firearms are just simply not even a consideration.

Good luck in your search.
 
Here you go, Swiss Arms DMR.
That SIG mount can be had, looked at one when I was in Switzerland a few weeks ago. It cost 600-CHF:eek: The Kern scope I doubt you could acquire but you can get away with mounting a Hensoldt FERO as I think they use those as well.
Where's Kampfhamster? He will know.
90-ZF.jpg

dmr.jpg
 
mrsmitty said:
Strange SAPR stands for "semi auto precision rifle"
Click to expand...

Really! That's worth a look then. Where can I find out more about this SAPR? Any idea if it would be non restricted? Price?

Edit:

HMM... but this page implies that the SAPR is select fire for military use, and only the civilian version is semi auto:

http://world.guns.ru/assault/switch/sig-750--751-sapr-e.html

It is still looking like modifying an M14 to make it similar to the M25 is still the best bet, but I would like to have other options. What about that Swiss DMR above? Is that the 550 Sniper? Is it non restricted? I have heard it's very expensive. Maybe I can dream :)
 
Xiao Xiong said:
It is still looking like modifying an M14 to make it similar to the M25 is still the best bet, but I would like to have other options. What about that Swiss DMR above? Is that the 550 Sniper? Is it non restricted? I have heard it's very expensive. Maybe I can dream :)
Click to expand...

No it is not the Sniper, that is the DMR , service rifle with ZF (scope).

To clone that you would need:
-Swiss Arms Classic green (yes non-restricted) with green furniture and swiss bayo lug. $2600 - 2800 used. $3400 new.
- Sig made Stanag mount $600 and you'd have to get it from Europe.
- Hensoldt 4X24 (originally made for the HK G3) surplus scope. There are a few around in the States and Germany of course $ 300-400. I dont think the Swiss Kern made scopes are for sale.

M14 DMR Clone will cost money too. Use Nork or LRB receiver and scrounge up all the usgi parts for it (time consuming). Make up a dummy shaft lock with connector arm, put in usgi stock then mount SEI scope mount and Leupy Mk4.
I had such a usgi clone (sans scope) and it was not cheap and took alot of time to get all the parts and details right. The real m14 is prohib and so is the real SIG 550.
 
Is the Swiss DMR actually fielded by the Swiss Army as a semi auto? Or is the military version auto?

What attracts me to the M25/M39 modifications to the M14 is that the military M25/M39 are actually fielded as semi-automatic weapons, without select fire. So building a non-restricted semi-automatic version actually replicates pretty much exactly what's used.

Ideally you could do this with an SR-25 as well? The SR-25 strikes me as a gun that should be non-restricted because it has a longer barrel and is fielded as a semi-automatic weapon, but I am guessing the fact that it shares a lot with the AR-15 means that it has been given at least a restricted rating in Canada?

Sorry a lot of stupid questions I have only recently begun researching this topic.

If there is a semi-auto swiss arms in military field use then that would become my preference because of the lower caliber. My wife will also be firing it, and she's only 120lbs.
 
The Swiss Army Stgw90's are all select fire (Semi, 3rnd burst, Full Auto)

The M14 in US service is not semi either. They ALL retain their full auto components DMR or not. Most have the sear locked in the semi position by what is called the shaft lock (round button that cannot be rotated for auto)
The shaft lock can be swapped for the fun switch by an armourer in minutes.

Why is this military semi only thing so important to you? If you insist on meeting this criteria nothing is available to you except WW2 scoped semis like the M1D Garand, G43 sniper and SVT sniper.

Yes the SR-25 is restricted like all AR variants.
 
Yeah, I know that a real service M25 can be flipped to auto mode by an armorer, but it isn't meant to be. If it was meant for auto use it would have a different stock/stabilizer/whatever. It's meant, tested, field trialed, and proven as a semi.

A rifle that is meant/tested/trialed/proven as a select fire rifle presumably has made design tradeoffs to accommodate its automatic use. Those are good tradeoffs when you actually have an auto mode, but those tradeoffs become straight downsides if the rifle is then nerfed to be semi only.

Thus I would rather have a rifle that was intended/fielded/tested/trialed/proven as a strictly semi rifle, because people who are smarter than me have decided and proven that restricting it to semi makes is the best fit to purpose.

That's the rational argument. The emotional argument is that I resent having a gun nerfed by regulation and if I'm going to spend several thousand dollars on a rifle I want to pick it up and feel that what I am holding in my hands is best in class, not something that has been made inferior by silly regulation. In short, if I'm only allowed to buy a semi, I want a gun that was meant to be used only as a semi.
 
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Some Sage EBR's in service have the fun switch installed. Makes no difference, does not hurt the rifle, so not sure where you're going with all that:confused: Nothing is inferior, the parts are all the same as is the configuration and the design was tested, proven and trialed back in Vietnam as the M21. The M25 is nothing new.

The Stgw90 rifles have a block to semi only as well via a plate on the left side that prevents them from being switched to full auto. I have heard that reg Swiss army are not allowed to use them in auto? Perhaps their DMR's are blocked as well? Perhaps other cgner's would be able to provide more insight on this matter.

Bottom line: No soldier is spraying auto with his DMR rifle. They use them in semi only or else they would not hit s*it.
 
You are really limiting your options to our pointless Restricted vs Non Restricted laws, a gun is a gun is a gun. In my opinion a real DMR would be the AR10 platform like the KAC SR25/M110 and LMT MWS.

If you really care about being "authentic", the classification status of the firearm is irrelevant as you should be happy you are even allowed to own a gun.

You do know what a DMR/SAPR intended role is right?
What is with the made semi only = real semi auto DMR? 95% of all DMR rifles are just nuetured down selectfire platforms but beefed up and accurized.
You can transform any semi auto sporter or selectfire platform, spend enough money and press it into such a rifle by calling it a new fancy name.

If you want real precision, you go bolt action.

But anyways Like as mentioned,
M14 in MK14 EBR, M21, M24 form.
Swiss Arms Classic Green with Kern optics, SG 550 Sniper
Norinco QBU Type-88
FN FNAR-H
 
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