gotta vent a little, just wont come clean

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uchi

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i just need to vent a little, i made a post a while back about a 1916 enfield that was given to me as a bday present from my inlaws. i first found out about this gun about 3 years ago and at that time it was sitting in a closet barrel up with nothing covering it. had been sitting like that for probably 15 or 20 years, just collecting crap. apparently it was cleaned after its last use, maybe, maybe not. the inside of the barrel looked like a jungle, full of hair and other such things. so i gave it an initial cleaning about a year ago. spent an hour and got alot of stuff out. well its finally in my possession now and i decided to clean it today. the inside of the barrel looks black still and grainy. i spent two hours working on it today, using different brushes and about 100 patches. used some hoppes cleaner as its what i had and some clp. the clp is crap i was told it was great, odorless and oiled while cleaning, its garbage. the hoppes i find is much better. seeing that im off work with a broken leg i couldnt go out and get any better cleaner for this thing so i used what i had. after about 2 hours i got most of what looks like hair particles out of it but it still looks grainy inside, its hard to describe, it doesnt look smooth or clean, looks like theres a build up of black something or other and looks like it has tiny little craters and stuff in it. id call it rust like but all my patches come out black. so who knows what this thing was cleaned with and oiled with before i got to it, but whatever it was it seems ot have stuck. so im gonna have to visit crappy tire today and get some new brushes as ive managed to finish off two on this gun and some better oil, or just some more hoppes as i find that stuff to work the best. the wife hates it because of its delicious aroma but i dont mind. i know you guys have suggested a handful of cleaners for me already, i dont have a gun store anywhere near me and in my present condition its hard to get out and to convince my wife i need to go to one, so ill keep trying with what i have and hope i can get it clean. also i remember some tips you guys gave me about using grease through the gun, might try that if this doesnt work.

sorry just needed to vent, i was just starting to get frustrated with this thing and the endless black patches it kept spitting out
 
uchi said:
i just need to vent a little, i made a post a while back about a 1916 enfield that was given to me as a bday present from my inlaws. i first found out about this gun about 3 years ago and at that time it was sitting in a closet barrel up with nothing covering it. had been sitting like that for probably 15 or 20 years, just collecting crap. apparently it was cleaned after its last use, maybe, maybe not. the inside of the barrel looked like a jungle, full of hair and other such things. so i gave it an initial cleaning about a year ago. spent an hour and got alot of stuff out. well its finally in my possession now and i decided to clean it today. the inside of the barrel looks black still and grainy. i spent two hours working on it today, using different brushes and about 100 patches. used some hoppes cleaner as its what i had and some clp. the clp is crap i was told it was great, odorless and oiled while cleaning, its garbage. the hoppes i find is much better. seeing that im off work with a broken leg i couldnt go out and get any better cleaner for this thing so i used what i had. after about 2 hours i got most of what looks like hair particles out of it but it still looks grainy inside, its hard to describe, it doesnt look smooth or clean, looks like theres a build up of black something or other and looks like it has tiny little craters and stuff in it. id call it rust like but all my patches come out black. so who knows what this thing was cleaned with and oiled with before i got to it, but whatever it was it seems ot have stuck. so im gonna have to visit crappy tire today and get some new brushes as ive managed to finish off two on this gun and some better oil, or just some more hoppes as i find that stuff to work the best. the wife hates it because of its delicious aroma but i dont mind. i know you guys have suggested a handful of cleaners for me already, i dont have a gun store anywhere near me and in my present condition its hard to get out and to convince my wife i need to go to one, so ill keep trying with what i have and hope i can get it clean. also i remember some tips you guys gave me about using grease through the gun, might try that if this doesnt work.

sorry just needed to vent, i was just starting to get frustrated with this thing and the endless black patches it kept spitting out
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get some carb cleaner or brake clean at canadian tire. outside, spray that stuff heavily down the bore and watch the black crap pour out the muzzle. let is sit for 5 or so minutes them scub it out with a bore brush repeat until no more black crap comes out the muzzle then use regular solvent. BE CAREFUL brake cleaner is nasty stuff.
 
mg4201 said:
get some carb cleaner or brake clean at canadian tire. outside, spray that stuff heavily down the bore and watch the black crap pour out the muzzle. let is sit for 5 or so minutes them scub it out with a bore brush repeat until no more black crap comes out the muzzle then use regular solvent. BE CAREFUL brake cleaner is nasty stuff.
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good call, didnt ever think of using either of those. ive got some high quality brake cleaner in my garage with a straw im gonna try if the rain ever stops. will it hurt the wood if it gets on there? gonna try to pick up some ammonia today or tomorrow aswell and see about cleaning it with that if this doesnt work. thanks for the help
 
This takes time and patience. There is a point where it won't get any better...and it may still look pitted and grotty,but comapatively shiney and clean.

Bore fouling is removed by 2 processes-chemical and friction. You have tried a form of friction with brushes and patches. Good friction results come from using JB Paste, a mildly abrasive oil based compound available from many gun stores and mail order vendors(Wholesale Sports). Many old military barrels exhibit a build up of copper fouling from bullet jacket material and this can be attacked by one of the copper disolving solvents, such as Sweet's 7.62, Butch's Boreshine, and Hoppes Benchrest.

I would recommend a course of alternating treatments with one of the de-coppering agents mentioned, JB Paste, and brushing/patching. Ordinary Hoppes and CLP are best for removing powder residue and actually serve as a lubricant for your bore brush. No quick fixes on this one without the proper materials.
 
purple said:
This takes time and patience. There is a point where it won't get any better...and it may still look pitted and grotty,but comapatively shiney and clean.

Bore fouling is removed by 2 processes-chemical and friction. You have tried a form of friction with brushes and patches. Good friction results come from using JB Paste, a mildly abrasive oil based compound available from many gun stores and mail order vendors(Wholesale Sports). Many old military barrels exhibit a build up of copper fouling from bullet jacket material and this can be attacked by one of the copper disolving solvents, such as Sweet's 7.62, Butch's Boreshine, and Hoppes Benchrest.

I would recommend a course of alternating treatments with one of the de-coppering agents mentioned, JB Paste, and brushing/patching. Ordinary Hoppes and CLP are best for removing powder residue and actually serve as a lubricant for your bore brush. No quick fixes on this one without the proper materials.
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excellent thanks for the names, im going out of town sunday and theres a gun shop where im going, gotta convince my wife to take me :D

do you guys run a wet patch through the barrel first and then run brushes through or do you do the brush dry first?
 
purple said:
This takes time and patience. There is a point where it won't get any better...and it may still look pitted and grotty,but comapatively shiney and clean.

Bore fouling is removed by 2 processes-chemical and friction. You have tried a form of friction with brushes and patches. Good friction results come from using JB Paste, a mildly abrasive oil based compound available from many gun stores and mail order vendors(Wholesale Sports). Many old military barrels exhibit a build up of copper fouling from bullet jacket material and this can be attacked by one of the copper disolving solvents, such as Sweet's 7.62, Butch's Boreshine, and Hoppes Benchrest.

I would recommend a course of alternating treatments with one of the de-coppering agents mentioned, JB Paste, and brushing/patching. Ordinary Hoppes and CLP are best for removing powder residue and actually serve as a lubricant for your bore brush. No quick fixes on this one without the proper materials.
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Plain old ammonia works if OP can't get one of the above locally. The stronger the concentration, the better but I have used Safeway stuff with good results.


Mark
 
A few years ago I picked up a Sportco that had sat unused for about 30 years. The bore looked rough, not of the usual cleaners made any difference. Then on a hunch I tried brake cleaner, after a couple patches the bore looked like new (it probably was).

What I was seeing in the bore was oil that had sat so long it was like varnish.
 
thats what this looks like. it looks like someone oiled the crap out of it and its been sitting forever and collecting dust and dirt and whatever else and its just caked in there.

my only concern with the ammonia is the smell. is that stuff safe to use in a house? ive got two dogs so i need to be cautious, and im hanging around with a broken leg so i cant really go outside or to my garage to clean it
 
I've done this job several times and know what you're going through very well. :(

There was a Ross Mk III that kept producing black patches no matter how long and how carefully I cleaned it...finally I figured out it was the bore coming out on the patches...it was truly hooped. That one went to someone who said they were going to deactivate it for a wall hanger.

One thing that can help is firing off a few rounds of ammo, some have found that will help loosen up some of that crap.

Ever seen a cupro-nickle bullet? Silver? That stuff can plate in there and very hard to remove.

I'm actually surprised when I receive a rifle that is clean...it's a rare enough event.

I'm sadly guessing that your bore is not going to clean up shiny and pristine...

BTW, do you have an Enfield funnel? Get one from John Denner and use boiling water down the bore (from the chamber) as part of your cleaning regimen. The heat expands the barrel pores and the water flushes crud out.
 
762shooter said:
A few years ago I picked up a Sportco that had sat unused for about 30 years. The bore looked rough, not of the usual cleaners made any difference. Then on a hunch I tried brake cleaner, after a couple patches the bore looked like new (it probably was).

What I was seeing in the bore was oil that had sat so long it was like varnish.
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Brakekleen eh? I'll have to try that next time.
 
Take the barreled action out of its stock and boil it in water for about an hour. That will get rid of any old oil or other foreign material in every crook and crevice on the rifle. If all you can do is find a container big enough to do the barrel, go for it.

The condition of the bore you describe, are indicative of pitting and discoloration caused by corrosive priming and chordite propellants used by the military in their ammunition at the time. Nothing that you can do about it. You can clean until you're blue in the face and your leg heals, it will still look the same. If you're lucky, the black is cosmetic and the pitting is very light and won't have any effect on accuracy.
Now, that you have said rifle apart, check the bedding. If everything looks worn and sloppy, get a glass bedding kit and bed it. If you are really into it and good at woodworking, cut back the ways and glue in some new wood and recut the profiles to fit. Also check out the gap between the fore end and the butt socket. If it's over the thicness of a piece of paper, it's to large and indicates bedding issue.

Now, one caveat. If you have a No1 Lee Enfield of any mark, the fore end must be removed first. The bolt that retains the butt has a square end that protrudes through the butt socket and into the slot at the rear or the fore end where it touches the flat side of the socket. If you remove this bolt, without first removing the fore end, you will split the fore end wood.

Brake Kleen and GM cylinder cleaner both will remove baked on or dried out carbon.
 
i hope i can salvage this thing, id really like to shoot it and enjoy it. i dont have to tell you guys but theres just something about these old historic rifles that i cant get enough of.

ive seen home made tubes out of old casings piece of tube and a funnel. might just make one. did i need to use a 303 case or will a casing from my 30.06 fit in there well enough to use?

i can see the rifling in the barrel, so am i safe to assume if i put a few through it to break the crap free i wont have an issue with the bullet coming out the other end?
 
bearhunter said:
Take the barreled action out of its stock and boil it in water for about an hour. That will get rid of any old oil or other foreign material in every crook and crevice on the rifle. If all you can do is find a container big enough to do the barrel, go for it.

The condition of the bore you describe, are indicative of pitting and discoloration caused by corrosive priming and chordite propellants used by the military in their ammunition at the time. Nothing that you can do about it. You can clean until you're blue in the face and your leg heals, it will still look the same. If you're lucky, the black is cosmetic and the pitting is very light and won't have any effect on accuracy.
Now, that you have said rifle apart, check the bedding. If everything looks worn and sloppy, get a glass bedding kit and bed it. If you are really into it and good at woodworking, cut back the ways and glue in some new wood and recut the profiles to fit. Also check out the gap between the fore end and the butt socket. If it's over the thicness of a piece of paper, it's to large and indicates bedding issue.

Now, one caveat. If you have a No1 Lee Enfield of any mark, the fore end must be removed first. The bolt that retains the butt has a square end that protrudes through the butt socket and into the slot at the rear or the fore end where it touches the flat side of the socket. If you remove this bolt, without first removing the fore end, you will split the fore end wood.

Brake Kleen and GM cylinder cleaner both will remove baked on or dried out carbon.
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excellent thanks for the help, i regret to say that this poor rifle has been sporterised, if i can get the bore cleaned up ill start looking for original wood and metal to get it back to original condition :)

gonna try the brake and carb cleaner method and hope it gets most of the stuff out. its stuff i have kicking around in my garage so it just makes sense to use it first.
 
uchi said:
excellent thanks for the help, i regret to say that this poor rifle has been sporterised, if i can get the bore cleaned up ill start looking for original wood and metal to get it back to original condition :)

gonna try the brake and carb cleaner method and hope it gets most of the stuff out. its stuff i have kicking around in my garage so it just makes sense to use it first.
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Make sure you breathe as little of that stuff as possible, maybe have a fan in the garage door blowing fresh air right to your face. Nasty stuff.
 
I bought a sporterized .303 a year ago that looked like it had sat for 40 or so years.....even the bolt was frozen shut! I cleaned for about an hour, with Barns CR-10 and break-free, but there was still a patch in the barrel about 3 inches long that looked bad, pitted and rusted, and the patches were still coming out dirty. After firing 3 rounds through it the 'bad' spot is completely gone, now i have her sighted in 3 inches high at 100 and can group 1.5" with the battle sights.
 
lledwod said:
I bought a sporterized .303 a year ago that looked like it had sat for 40 or so years.....even the bolt was frozen shut! I cleaned for about an hour, with Barns CR-10 and break-free, but there was still a patch in the barrel about 3 inches long that looked bad, pitted and rusted, and the patches were still coming out dirty. After firing 3 rounds through it the 'bad' spot is completely gone, now i have her sighted in 3 inches high at 100 and can group 1.5" with the battle sights.
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thats reassuring to know. im glad my bolt is smooth as butter and everything else seems to work fine so far.

im tempted to hit the range but im just worried about how the recoil is gonna feel when it goes through my leg, it hurts enough on its own without having this thing sending a shockwave through me, lol
 
my sense of adventure left me 3 weeks ago, lol. tuesday was my birtday, wednesday i bought myself a new truck, thursday i broke my shin in 2 places in a spiral fracture, saturday i had surgery, saturday i was also supposed to leave on my honeymoon. not the word supposed. i broke my leg doing jiu jitsu, been doing it for 6 years. my buddy opened a new gym, i was feeling adventurous, ten minutes in, i broke my leg, lol. you wanna come shoot it for me? its clean i promise, lol
 
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