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scianna54 said:
Let's face it, the conversion of those French MLE 1873 guns from 11mm to 45 ACP doesn't make any sense for several reasons:

1. thinning out the cylinder wall - this conversion is unlike the Webley .455 to 45 ACP since it actually involves thinning out the cylinder walls, hence weakening them, while the Webley conversion only involves modifying the back of the cylinder. The French 11 mm is using a healed bullet, a normal .451 or .452 bullet doesn't fit into the cylinder as the cylinder on the French 1873 is like a cone.

2. The 45 ACP brass casing has no rim, this is no problem for the Webley conversion since you can tip the whole front of the revolver and place a moon clip with the casings in it and after firing pop them all out at once.
With the French conversion you still use the moon clips BUT you have to take out the whole cylinder in order to access it. The French revolver has no loading gate and no tip up front. This takes a very long time. This is the main reason why the Webley RIC or bulldog revolvers are usually original and not modified.

3. read here about safety and modification concerns:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?87563-Mle-1873-revolver-modifacation


There is actually no gunsmith who will do that modification anymore, it's not safe.
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+ 1 on that.

I read a lot of french articles on these conversions and they were done during WWII out of desperation to make these gun shoot.
Although the steel is of very good quality the modifications were NEVER nitroproofed by any arsenals.
Shooter beware :rey2

By the way scianna, I have about one thousand rounds shot already with the Mod 73 you sold me. I made 300 casings out of 44-40 win cut at 22mm with 15 gr of BP and bought a bullet mould at Buffalo, made a crimp tool and up easy loading. Did you know the design of the chamber was made to shoot a 22mm cartridge? Only the stupid French department responsible for developping the cartridge for the army decided to make it shorter to 17mm.The navy made it to 22mm
I get similar velocity as the 44 Russian (750 ft/sec)with these cartridges.w:h:
 
Listen Dingus, I always appreciate a good story

BUT it's not funny anymore when you change your stories like politicians do.

That same French 1873 you had on the EE for a while on and off was first adverstised by you as original in 11mm with a long story why those 45 ACP conversions are such crap.

Then you obviously realized that it's converted and now your story is completely changed.

What a mess!
 
scianna54 said:
I may add that I do have a restricted PAL, do you?
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A restricted PAL is meaningless in this discussion of the safety and validity of rechambering handguns to a new caliber. The real issue is is the person posting, a trained and experienced gunsmith as well as what is the published minimum wall thickness for the chamber of any given caliber. I would suggest that very few on this list qualify.

worth mentioning re the safety or appropriateness of headspacing on the cartridge mouth; most semi auto pistols headspace that way. There are relatively few rimless handgun cartridges with shoulders to headspace on.

I think the best we can hope for is published quotes from reputable sources on chamberings and loading they have found safe in specific firearms.

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon said:
A restricted PAL is meaningless in this discussion of the safety and validity of rechambering handguns to a new caliber. The real issue is is the person posting, a trained and experienced gunsmith as well as what is the published minimum wall thickness for the chamber of any given caliber. I would suggest that very few on this list qualify.

worth mentioning re the safety or appropriateness of headspacing on the cartridge mouth; most semi auto pistols headspace that way. There are relatively few rimless handgun cartridges with shoulders to headspace on.

I think the best we can hope for is published quotes from reputable sources on chamberings and loading they have found safe in specific firearms.

cheers mooncoon
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You are right but handguns don't have 6 chambers and were designed and built that way. I don't believe anybody here on this forum can say anything qualified about a specific gun which is 120 years old and may have been butchered to fit a specific caliber 75 years ago. Do a google and you will find out that it is not recommended to do so. As mentioned by said poster before. I have bought and sold more of those French revolvers than anybody on this forum over the last year and I indeed fired some of them. Reloading supplies are available from H-C in France but you can also buy reloading dies sets in the US (I have one).
 
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Wow what a load of mis information and spite.

Let us remember here that any re chambering of french 1873 to 455/45acp etc is results in a pretty thin pile of dust. We are talking minor removal of material.

Ultimately the only way you can blow up a gun is to feed it too much pressure. 11mmx17 french ordinance, 450 corto, 455 mKII, 45 acp it don't matter what case you are using if the pressure is per original specs you are good to go.

When it comes to strength of a reamed hole there is an engineering phenomenon that makes removal of wall material not correlate linearly with strength. basically the bigger you go the less wall thickness you need, in this case it feels like the reaming would leave you pretty much where you started if you could quantify the change at all.

There are so many of these revolvers in 45 acp floating around africa and the rest of world that you can see one in a 21 st century combatant's hand with little google effort. I am sure if they regularily blew apart when shooting wwII SMG ammo then they would be worn with less pride then they are. Pandering to the Nancies you could say that if a hand loader roll crimped a 45 acp round and totally shushed hell out of it then yes you would loose the ability for the cartridge to properly head space but if you take a bath with a toaster it is not good either. Ever heard of a bath/toasting accident??

The 1873 french revolver in any chambering is one of the finest revolvers every produced. I for one would be happy to have one in any cal. IMHO they are about the fastest most accurate DA revolver out there.
 
scianna54 said:
You are right but handguns don't have 6 chambers and were designed and built that way.

I don't believe anybody here on this forum can say anything qualified about a specific gun which is 120 years old and may have been butchered to fit a specific caliber 75 years ago. Do a google and you will find out that it is not recommended to do so.
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Your first point is an interesting one from someone who was promoting the use of spellchecker.

Re the recommendations; you will also find numerous recommendations that people should not shoot damascus barrels and yet many hundreds and probably thousands of shots are fired through damascus barrels every year safely.

As D D points out, the safety of rechambering is a specialized engineering problem and so far in this discussion no one with a P Eng to their name has made any definitive statement re minimum wall thickness. Earlier you implied that a RPAL qualified a person to comment on such information, now you are implying that it is the number of unaltered guns that you buy and sell which qualifies you to give an accurate assessment. I would like to reply that neither amounts to an engineering degree nor to the knowledge of a trained and experienced gunsmith. While we are at it, I have an RPAL and occasionally tinker with guns but definitely don't feel qualified to comment on the safe pressure limits to the chamber(s) of a rechambered firearm.

cheers mooncoon
 
scianna54 said:
Listen Dingus, I always appreciate a good story

BUT it's not funny anymore when you change your stories like politicians do.

That same French 1873 you had on the EE for a while on and off was first adverstised by you as original in 11mm with a long story why those 45 ACP conversions are such crap.

Then you obviously realized that it's converted and now your story is completely changed.

What a mess!
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No Mess only mess here is your misinformation.

My guns are profesionally set up to shoot 45 acp the correct way.
So i wouldnt find out that my gun was all of a sudden 45 acp would i.
And i never have said correct 45 acp conversions are crap! only conversions done by people who dont know what there doing can be crap!
I have 3 french 1873s at the moment.
Some are converted some are orignal i offer people a choice as some do like the orignal chamberings.
Theres no danger in and conversion IF its done correct and the ammo is reloaded to safe presures, this applys to all antique guns tho.
The French 1873 is a stronger gun than any break action webley and theres plenty of them shooting 45 acp there just set up diffrent.

Theres Antique SAA Colts that shoot 45 ACP with the exact same chambers as a 1873 french gun uses.
Go look at www.coltparts.com they sell 45 acp cylinders for SAA Colts some members here shoot them in there antique SAA Colts with Reloads.
Its the exact same set up :rolleyes: No moon clips the cases head space on there case mouth there new cylinders tho so stronger but people still use reloads in pre 1898 made guns.
They Reload and eject thru there "LOADING GATES" just like the 1873 french guns do.

Because a couple guys on a USA gun forum state 1873 french guns were never converted to shoot 45 ACP dureing WWII by the french you right away agree yet others in that same link say they were converted and used .
You just pick whatever you think fits your arguement and go with that!
Really who knows for sure... we were not there but if it was posible my guess is it woulda been done them were desprate times were they even had to eat cats to survive so would they make a gun that could shoot a comon round avialable at the time ?
My guess is yes dam rights they would.

Back then alot were done with Drill bits and files . now there done with the use of modern tooling and only a tiny amount of metal is removed a few tho and not in the entire chamber.
Just like a SAA Colt cylinders sold at colt parts 45 ACP DOES head space very safely on its case mouth.
Yes there modern cylinders but lots of 45 acp is shot thru lots of webley mKIs and mKIIs with all the Hand wringing and nashing of teeth i have yet to see one sold on CGN blowin up.
Theres been hunderds sold by now. yet not one story of a guy blew the gun up.

I still recomend that 45 acp be loaded to safe presure levals that the orignal guns can handle.
In the end its the buyers choice if they want 45 acp or 11 mm
i see 45 acp ones selling good and 11 mm not so much so most guys want 45 acp.
I think that reason is the components are easy to find for 45 ACP.
 
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scianna54 said:
Let's face it, the conversion of those French MLE 1873 guns from 11mm to 45 ACP doesn't make any sense for several reasons:



2. The 45 ACP brass casing has no rim, this is no problem for the Webley conversion since you can tip the whole front of the revolver and place a moon clip with the casings in it and after firing pop them all out at once.
With the French conversion you still use the moon clips BUT you have to take out the whole cylinder in order to access it. The French revolver has no loading gate and no tip up front. This takes a very long time. This is the main reason why the Webley RIC or bulldog revolvers are usually original and not modified.

Just curious: What's that hinged thingy at the right/rear of the cylinder? Looks like a loading gate to me.
Also, 45 acp chambers on the neck in all semi auto pistols and many revolvers. Is that not safe?

And by the way if it's made in Britain by Webley and their contractors it's two separate words. Bull Dog. One of those cases where spell check doesn't work.
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scianna54 said:
You are right but handguns don't have 6 chambers and were designed and built that way. I don't believe anybody here on this forum can say anything qualified about a specific gun which is 120 years old and may have been butchered to fit a specific caliber 75 years ago. Do a google and you will find out that it is not recommended to do so. As mentioned by said poster before. I have bought and sold more of those French revolvers than anybody on this forum over the last year and I indeed fired some of them. Reloading supplies are available from H-C in France but you can also buy reloading dies sets in the US (I have one).
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LOL and my post is a mess .

maby read some of your own postings :D

The fact you think 45 Acp converted French 1873 use a moon clip tells everyone reading your posts that you dont know what your talking about.
All the ones i have had in both 455 and 45 Acp eject and reload ammo thru the loading port useing the loading gate and ejector just like a SAA Colt.
You dont have to take out the cylinder to load or unload.
 
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Well its not like i want to get in theses fights all the time but when someone posts stuff thats not even close to being Correct i feel i have to set the record strait so others dont think thats the norm.
 
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johnl said:
So modifying an antique to shoot calibres on the restricted list doesn't change the antique status? Cool. Where can I find the referance so that I can shut up the local gun experts:p
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Go to sticky top of page link to CFC regs click on Facts sheets then look down till you see antique regs. then print them
 
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