OK, I'm convinced I NEED a.375H&H but, which one???

Gatehouse said:
Methinks the case of the RIgby (which you like) is closer in shape to the Ruger than the H&H.;)
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.416 Rigby, maximum pressure: 47,137 psi

.375 Ruger, maximum pressure: 62,000psi

Still a fan of the Rigby, it uses a big case to keep the pressures low and performance high. And I'm more of a fan of the .375 H&H, thanks to lower pressures, taper, and high magazine capacity. :)
 
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My new Left Hand CZ 550 375 H & H came in from AHR today. I am very satisfied the the fit, finish and function. It holds 6 in the magazine.
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Mine does too. So does Dustin's. I changed floorplates on my CZ .416 to get 4 down, and am thinking about something similar for the .458 M70, and .375 Remington is such a thing exists.
 
Ardent said:
.416 Rigby, maximum pressure: 47,137 psi

.375 Ruger, maximum pressure: 62,000psi

Still a fan of the Rigby, it uses a big case to keep the pressures low and performance high. And I'm more of a fan of the .375 H&H, thanks to lower pressures, taper, and high magazine capacity. :)
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Pressure has nothing to do with feeding. If there was some issue with the case shape of the 375 RUger feeding, then we'd see it with the .416 RIgby, too. So if you like the way the Rigby feeds, you must agree that the Ruger will feed just as well. And the .416 Rigby certainly has a reputation as a dangerous game cartridge.;)

Some people claim issues with extraction due to pressure, but the H&H operates at exactly the same pressure as the Ruger. So if you like the pressure of the H&H you must like the pressure of the Ruger.:cool:

So now we ask: Does the tapered cartridge aid in extraction in a bolt action rifle? Well we have been told that for many years, but then we are back to the rest of the straight wall cartridges. They don't have a problem with extraction. So why should the Ruger?:)

If I was using a double rifle, or this was 100 years ago, I might be more inclined to go with a belted, tapered cartridge, but with a strong bolt action in 2011, there just isn't an advantage...Unless you want to go with the 5+1 round capacity in the CZ. You can only put 3+1 in the .375 Ruger.:p
 
Gatehouse said:
Pressure has nothing to do with feeding. If there was some issue with the case shape of the 375 RUger feeding, then we'd see it with the .416 RIgby, too. So if you like the way the Rigby feeds, you must agree that the Ruger will feed just as well. And the .416 Rigby certainly has a reputation as a dangerous game cartridge.;)

Some people claim issues with extraction due to pressure, but the H&H operates at exactly the same pressure as the Ruger. So if you like the pressure of the H&H you must like the pressure of the Ruger.:cool:

So now we ask: Does the tapered cartridge aid in extraction in a bolt action rifle? Well we have been told that for many years, but then we are back to the rest of the straight wall cartridges. They don't have a problem with extraction. So why should the Ruger?:)

If I was using a double rifle, or this was 100 years ago, I might be more inclined to go with a belted, tapered cartridge, but with a strong bolt action in 2011, there just isn't an advantage...Unless you want to go with the 5+1 round capacity in the CZ. You can only put 3+1 in the .375 Ruger.:p
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I handload exclusively like most of us in this thread, and always 'stretch the legs' of any cartridge I get when first working up loads. Every cartridge I've ever done this with gets sticky at the upper end in nuclear loads- except the H&H. The minute the bolt handle's lifted, it slides out like a low pressure Trail Boss lead bullet load.

Also, I disagree that all the standard straight bodied case extract just fine, all the time, as I've seen different. Just a few weeks ago I watched my brother struggle with his .300 Weatherby (a damn near identical case size to the Ruger) shooting factory Remington Core-Lokt 180gr, he'd never encountered that before and was frustrated and perplexed. He'd also never shot in the fine dusty conditions, and in 38 degrees C. The H&H still worked like usual, naturally; it was born in those conditions.

My brother's now in the market for an H&H for the extraction reliability, and the same reasons you and I both like .375's, the horsepower. He hit a Wildebeest on a good frontal shot that produced chunks of lung on the ground, lots of blood, but the thing was still standing nearly half an hour later as the 180gr Core Lokt didn't track straight and do what he hoped. A very tough animal granted too, but he had to watch as the .375 H&H dropped it ultimately with a Texas heart shot. He was sold between that and a rifle that worked for him 90% of the time but could give it up miserably when it was desperately needed. :)

The .375 Ruger has some ground time in Africa and from what I've read, Boddington likes it, but he's paid to as well mind you. This is a lot like arguing mechanical versus quartz watches, new vs. old, and a lot of personal preference comes into it. I have seen the advantages first hand of the Old Crocodile, and believe losing at minimum a round of magazine capacity and the ability to acquire ammunition easily worldwide are reason enough- case geometry is just a bonus. :) I do like and respect your .375 Ruger, an efficient cartridge, affordable to anyone who wants a .375, but I just won't be swayed over I'm afraid as there aren't any advantages except it's cheaper due to fitting a standard action, not a concern for me. For North America, I'd still give equal recommendation to the 'Ruger, also available in nice little stainless packages, Africa's just a different ball game.
 
I handload exclusively like most of us in this thread, and always 'stretch the legs' of any cartridge I get when first working up loads. Every cartridge I've ever done this with gets sticky at the upper end in nuclear loads- except the H&H. The minute the bolt handle's lifted, it slides out like a low pressure Trail Boss lead bullet load.

Also, I disagree that all the standard straight bodied case extract just fine, all the time, as I've seen different. Just a few weeks ago I watched my brother struggle with his .300 Weatherby (a damn near identical case size to the Ruger) shooting factory Remington Core-Lokt 180gr, he'd never encountered that before and was frustrated and perplexed. He'd also never shot in the fine dusty conditions, and in 38 degrees C. The H&H still worked like usual, naturally; it was born in those conditions.
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Of course I rather like the H&H myself, and if the Ruger hadn't been introduced, it would be on the short list of my cartridge choices. But I don't think it has magical properties. ;)

I've loaded the Ruger to 2725fps with 300gr bullets, and not got any pressure signs. Nothing. I stopped working up because I figured that the chrono was telling me the pressures were high, even though I could still open the bolt easily. It wasn't 38C, but it was definitely a warm day. And of course, we don't need to load our ammo to the point of failure for it to be effective

The 300 Weatherby operates at higher pressures than the H&H/Ruger. 65000 PSI compared to 62000 PSI. And then Weatherby ammo seems to be loaded hot, and people have encountered sticky extraction with it in winter, not just in Africa! I don't know your brothers situation,but to condemn all straight wall cartridges because of his experience is hardly fair. It's like me condemning the 375 H&H because one that I used was prone to jamming.

I think the whole case shape/lower pressure/feeding/extraction thing is a leftover from the era of the British used cordite. Honestly, we don't get people saying "don't take your 300WM to Africa, you need a .300 H&H, or your cases will stick":p

If we are going to put much stock in the case design/extraction theory, then we should discount almost all the cartridges designed in the last 75 years as being unsuitable for Africa. Cartridges like the 300WM, 338 WM and the .416 Rem, all working at higher pressures than the Ruger....And we all know that they have worked just fine.

And guys in Texas with similar temperatures and dusty conditions have no problems making non tapered cartridges work.

One nice aspect of case design for the handloader regarding case design, is that the Ruger stretches less than the tapered H&H, with less trimming and less stretching at the case head.

H&H certainly has the edge for ammo availability in Africa, as it has had a 100 year head start. We will need to check back in a decade or so. Never fear, I am sure we will still be having this conversation then.Laugh2
 
I look forward to the continued debate, a good post Gate. :D I remain a fan of the tapered case, higher magazine capacity, and ubiquitos ammo availability. I have H&H brass on its 6th firing, still hasn't required me to chuck them up in the case trimmer. At risk of continuing the same debate with the same lines, ah hell not at risk of but actually doing so, try comparing availability even just in Canada for ammo, let alone Africa. We'll still be going back and forth in ten years for sure, and I look forward to the result of the wait with regards to ammo availability. Still just one company making .375 Ruger ammo? :D
 
Gatehouse said:
If everyone plays nice. The NEW KING thread was the largest thread in this forums history, and it was locked.:p:p
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I'm loving this thread but can't find the NEW KING thread - my search fu is weak and there are so many posts and sig lines that contain those words...
 
Ardent said:
I look forward to the continued debate, a good post Gate. :D I remain a fan of the tapered case, higher magazine capacity, and ubiquitos ammo availability. I have H&H brass on its 6th firing, still hasn't required me to chuck them up in the case trimmer. At risk of continuing the same debate with the same lines, ah hell not at risk of but actually doing so, try comparing availability even just in Canada for ammo, let alone Africa. We'll still be going back and forth in ten years for sure, and I look forward to the result of the wait with regards to ammo availability. Still just one company making .375 Ruger ammo? :D
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Just as the H&H ammo was not widely available all over the planet when it was first introduced, the Ruger will take time to be more available. So far only Hornady makes factory ammo (that I know of) but again, that will probably change with time.

I did read posts (I think on Accuratereloading) about hunters encountering .375 Ruger ammo in Africa, and as so many people have purchased NEW KING rifles, I expect to see it more available not just in Africa, but elsewhere, too.

I dont' expect to see it at Walmart in Canada, but you dont' find 375 H&H ammo there either.

I'd suggest anyone traveling with a cartridge not chambered in 30-06, 300WM, 375 H&H, 458 WM and a few other very popular cartridges to take precautions to ensure you have ammo. People have been taken all manner of wildcat, specialty or obsolete cartridges to Africa and hunted with them, so it's not like it is impossible. ;)
 
Gatehouse said:
I think even people shooting the .375 C/T SuperFudd have managed to kill stuff in Africa.
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Imagine that! After all it was THE original 375 short mag! ;)

OTOH ... Hunting Africa holds no attraction to me. Northern BC, Alta, Sask. or the Yukon is another ball of wax altogether. I'd love to do one of those CDN horseback hunts that JOC wrote about.

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