AR Forgrips and kneeling positon question - options and opinions

greentips said:
Like I said before, the reason, and the only reason, people hold on to the magwell is that regular C7/M16 barrel is not free floated. The POI can change up to 6-8MOA if you force it with aggressive hold like what you said. That's why in an all military shoot like the CFSAC, everyone holds on the the magwell - and that practice has its root in the military where plain jane non-free floated C7/M16s had been used for aeons.

Know your weapon construction, figure out what you need to achieve, and pick the appropriate technique.
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Excellent response.
 
Hungry said:
If I don't have a foregrip/stub/AVG to look cool, will my #### fall off ? :eek:

I just installed one for next summer's CQB season! :nest: And the colour matches my M15 Armalite furniture! :evil:

:cheers:

Barney
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I am following the example of my mirror commando instructor Miagi san. I have bothered to pay more to get Magpul coolaid in matching colors.

Ar180shooter said:
I can't add anything in regards to what happened to the rifle in the incident you mentioned, but I will add that after the clean up, I noticed some of the primers were flattened and cratered. These were signs that someones handloads were a little too hot, and I suspect that this was the cause of the failure, although I don't know if the brass I observed came from the shooter who had their rifle fail. I'll try to find some of the brass and post pics of them later.
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Yeah, I have some theories as to "why" on the kaboom. But for this thread I am more interested in what happened to the rifle when the kaboom happened, no what cause the kaboom.

Clobbersauras said:
This is the third thread in as many days that has covered this topic. I think it's great that people on this forum are finally discussing these issues. I also believe that is why we need a "Training" forum on this board, to discuss these issues in the proper venue. I've asked a mod and he said he'll discuss with GT.
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Damn, I appear to officially be "that guy who doesn't use the search function" :eek: I have missed those threads. Can you quickly post a link as there may be information there that is not covered here and relevant.

I like the idea of having a "Shooting Techniques, Positions and Methods" (or something like that group) with sub-groups for Tactical Rife, Tactical Pistol, Target Pistol, Rifle Hunting, Target, Tactical Shotgun, Sporting Shotgun...etc, etc, etc.
 
Bolivar said:
I like the idea of having a "Shooting Techniques, Positions and Methods" (or something like that group) with sub-groups for Tactical Rife, Tactical Pistol, Target Pistol, Rifle Hunting, Target, Tactical Shotgun, Sporting Shotgun...etc, etc, etc.
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This is the best thing to come out of this whole thread.
 
Petrock said:
None of the working professionals I know use either of those, but they do use AK pattern frequently, which would amount to the same if you wrap your thumb over the top. No sites.

I was referring to the idiots that make the "I was a Navy seal for ten years" TV shows or videos. Doesn't seem to matter which type of firearm they are "handling" they use that same stupid grip.
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I would tend to argue that if there is a person using a grip that works well on one gun which he does not have, but completely obscures his sights on the gun he does have, it is not the grip that is stupid.

So, for the record, if you have a gun where this grip actually obscures your sights, unlike an AR, but potentially AKs, VZs, and 55Xs, don't use this grip.

I can't believe that doesn't go without saying and it's clear there is serious stupidity involved in that chain but I really don't think it's the grip that's stupid.

I can't think of a video clip I have seen by anyone selling training that features that grip in use when it obscures the sights, but not having TV I wouldn't know if it's come up on a TV show. However, I have a very hard time imagining anyone attempting to build, or exploit existing, credibility in the shooting scene advocating the use of a thumb-over grip on a gun with which it doesn't work. I would be interested to know who you think you have seen doing this.
 
Petrock said:
This is the best thing to come out of this whole thread.
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I'm glad there is something for everybody.

I honestly don't see why there is frequently so much drama/name calling/finger pointing on threads in this particular forum.

As the OP I appreciate all of the views and inputs on the original topic. Some good stuff here and food for thought regardless of the point of view. Ultimately there is not likely one right answer to work for everybody in all situations.
 
Bolivar said:
Damn, I appear to officially be "that guy who doesn't use the search function" :eek: I have missed those threads. Can you quickly post a link as there may be information there that is not covered here and relevant.

I like the idea of having a "Shooting Techniques, Positions and Methods" (or
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No worries, the discussions were buried in other threads (hijacks :D) ....

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=671142&highlight=magwell

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=551073
 
Bolivar said:
Yeah, I have some theories as to "why" on the kaboom. But for this thread I am more interested in what happened to the rifle when the kaboom happened, no what cause the kaboom.
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My point was that IMO you're concerned about nothing, as long as you're using safe ammunition. A blow out like what happened is an extremely rare occurrence at best, and is ammunition related 99% of the time.
 
Ar180shooter said:
My point was that IMO you're concerned about nothing, as long as you're using safe ammunition. A blow out like what happened is an extremely rare occurrence at best, and is ammunition related 99% of the time.
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+1

I think we investigated one where the bore was completely full of debris (huge user error) that resulted in a "spontaneous disassembly" of a C7.

Reputable factory ammo is almost never the cause. Usually hand loads or other user error.
 
misanthropist said:
I would tend to argue that if there is a person using a grip that works well on one gun which he does not have, but completely obscures his sights on the gun he does have, it is not the grip that is stupid.

So, for the record, if you have a gun where this grip actually obscures your sights, unlike an AR, but potentially AKs, VZs, and 55Xs, don't use this grip.

I can't believe that doesn't go without saying and it's clear there is serious stupidity involved in that chain but I really don't think it's the grip that's stupid.

I can't think of a video clip I have seen by anyone selling training that features that grip in use when it obscures the sights, but not having TV I wouldn't know if it's come up on a TV show. However, I have a very hard time imagining anyone attempting to build, or exploit existing, credibility in the shooting scene advocating the use of a thumb-over grip on a gun with which it doesn't work. I would be interested to know who you think you have seen doing this.
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The show is called "Tactical Impact" and they do infact use that rediculous grip on all rifles, regardless: of where the sites are located, shooting position or distance too the target.

And the two monkeys that do it are supposed to be ex-pros.

Kyle Dafours supposedly used to be a seal and an Aussie that is supposed to have been SAS.
 
Ar180shooter said:
My point was that IMO you're concerned about nothing, as long as you're using safe ammunition. A blow out like what happened is an extremely rare occurrence at best, and is ammunition related 99% of the time.
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You are probably correct. Still I am going to try something different. I might just improve my shooting. Worse comes to worse, I can go back to my current hold and/or use it in the correct situations and the hand forward when it's right too.
 
Petrock said:
The show is called "Tactical Impact" and they do infact use that rediculous grip on all rifles, regardless: of where the sites are located, shooting position or distance too the target.

And the two monkeys that do it are supposed to be ex-pros.

Kyle Dafours supposedly used to be a seal and an Aussie that is supposed to have been SAS.
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People do do things on TV that have no basis in real life. Shooting with obscured sights sounds like a good example, same as the "gangsta" hold for pistols.

At the same time, if I saw somebody doing that on TV I would be mentally calling bulls*it too.
 
Petrock said:
+1

I think we investigated one where the bore was completely full of debris (huge user error) that resulted in a "spontaneous disassembly" of a C7.

Reputable factory ammo is almost never the cause. Usually hand loads or other user error.
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Right, I should have included "user error" as well. :redface:

And is "spontaneous disassembly" an official CF term (it should be :p)? Because I laughed a little when I read it (not funny if it happens to you though!).
 
I also think a training section with discussion and vids,along with a heads up for courses related to multi-gun training would be awsome. Reviews of course being offered. I think we all get a little bit to wrapped up in whats right for everybody and not what works for you as an individual. Wait for it .........we are all not the same. An open mind to trying new things and deciding for yourself if it works or achives what you are stiveing towards is also nessecary. In the words of Chief Quinnby(Simpsons) "Can't ya all just get along"
 
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