incressing accuracy how?

I can't help it, it's a discussion forum so let's discuss.......sooo......M14 Doc, or anyone who's already gone down this long road...

What can you expect by adding a NM op rod spring guide, USGI spring, swapping out for USGI gas cyl, using a NM piston (for 175gr), and shimming the gas cyl?

Would it even be measurable? Just curious is all. I'm doing it either way, already have the parts haha!
 
I can't help it, it's a discussion forum so let's discuss
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Jesus, Mary and Joseph :rolleyes:.......OK

firstly......

have a scope mount on the way forget the name
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I don‘t get it :confused: What is it?

Its a money pit
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That it surely is ;)

Which begs the bottom line question which nobody has asked from

saders
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How much can you afford to spend ? $100, $1000, $10000, no limit ?
 
Right now i am in school doing welding first year so in june hoping i get a good job my spending limit will jump alot right now i am limited to a low amount.Which i am spending on reloading gear and scope mount.
 
Sader there is a ton of information on this forum and some very knowledgeable people. I'd recommend doing your best to attend one of Hungry's m14 clinics and working with him and M14Doctor as those two are your portal to incredible accuracy! Even with spending very little you can accomplish great strides by tightining up your rifle.

As mentioned before hand loading is a big step, on my m14 it will shoot 3" groups at 100 yards with Winchester hunting ammo but 5" groups with Remington Ammo. My next step is to venture in to hand loads.

The shooter does make a big difference but even a sharpshooter with an SKS can't make sub Moa.
 
I'll start by saying compared to most the people who have posted here I have limited experience. However I think its important to say dont let the big $ numbers throw you off can this rifle be a money pit absolutely but it dosnt have to be if your realistic about your goals.

My rifle started out shooting approx 6in groups at 100m with irons and factory ammo when I purchased it new about 2 years ago. To date I have added a arms 18 mount, redfield 2-7 scope, a match op rod guide $45 and a USGI stock $60 I also shimmed the gas system, peened were the oprod guide goes on the barrel and under the gas cylinder to tighten the fit. In total above the cost of my rifle I am in for about $650. The biggest thing I did to improve accuracy was start reloading.

Now maybe I got lucky and got a good rifle but I have been very impressed with my results I was doing initial load develpmonet with some new brass last weeked my worst loads shot around 2in my best were sub 1.5 with a couple close to 1in does my rifle consistently shoot 1.5in or better to soon to say, but it is showing promise of being a consistent sub 2MOA shooter.

The resources and information on this site where a huge help to me I got tonnes of advice from Hungry and M14 doctor on trouble shooting my rifle both directly and by reading thier post and advice to other shooters. If you decide to get into reloading Mystic Players article on precision reloading for the M1a was my go to. My impression with this rifle is that each one has the potential for big accuracy gains initialy to a point which varies, after that point you start spending considerable money for small gains I think I have reached that point with my rifle (although I still need to unitize my gas system). My advice is to listen to the people who have being working with these rifles for a lot longer then me and see where you end up no reason you shouldnt be able to shoot 3MOA or better without taking out a loan.
 
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f55 said:
Its a money pit, or can be, learn to shoot with irons and reload.
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Bingo!

5" group with irons at 100m from any shooting position is, in my opinion, exactly what this rifle was made for and should leave you with a giant smile on your face!

If you can do that with an all stock M305 you are laughing. Beyond that I'd:
-upgrade rear sight to M1 garand rear sight
-buy and shoot lots of affordable FMJ ammo in decent brass
-save and learn to reload that brass (this is the stage I am at right now)

Enjoy the ride!
 
Excellent advice from Freerider and Mauser GDog.
It doesn't always take BIG cash to massage your rifle to it's potential. If everything else is done by following the free advice laid down by Hungry, myself and helpful folks like Skullboy, Oldsmobiler, Tiriaq, Tstar and several others who have always stepped up and shared their experiences and expertise, and yer rifle is still 5" or over.... Then it's time to check the bank hehehe
 
M14Doctor said:
Excellent advice from Freerider and Mauser GDog.
It doesn't always take BIG cash to massage your rifle to it's potential. If everything else is done by following the free advice laid down by Hungry, myself and helpful folks like Skullboy, Oldsmobiler, Tiriaq, Tstar and several others who have always stepped up and shared their experiences and expertise, and yer rifle is still 5" or over.... Then it's time to check the bank hehehe
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Thank god you guys don't charge 0.25 per answer on this board! :D


saders said:
So what do you mean by shimming the gas system
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From what I understand, to simplify everything, is basically putting a spacer between the gas cylinder lock and the gas cylinder, so that when you tighten the gas cylinder lock, it is tight against the gas cylinder @ the 12 position.
 
Baby Steps

I can't resist. I want to preface by saying, I did most of my mods very un-scientifically, so I am not sure which ones helped with accuracy and which ones were just helpful in making the gun function better. Once again, after sitting here thinking about it, a few things jump out at me.(snakes !!!) Just kidding, only high on too much caffeine.

It would seem that accuracy is determined by what happens up to the point that the bullet leaves the barrel, including muzzle device if you have one. So what happens before the bullet leaves the barrel? You can start with the ammo you are using. Then move onto what rest you have, that might put pressure on the barrel and how rock solid is it? Trigger; includes any movement of rifle while squeezing the trigger. Trigger is probably one of the most important areas after ammo. Just watch what happens when a dummy round is loaded somewhere in the mag without knowing which one it is.

Once you have the best ammo, you have a solid rest, and mastered good trigger control, work on your breathing. Very important once again.

So now the bullet is on it's way down the barrel. There are a number of things that could influence barrel vibration and whip such as bedding, and anything touching the barrel that could affect how it reacts as the bullet travels down the barrel. Too many things to mention without writing a book. Last might be your muzzle device. Are the gasses pushing your bullet down the barrel allowed to exit the device without negatively affecting the base of the bullet as it exits ?

As you can see, you have not spent a lot of money to address most of the points I have mentioned. Most of them are free if you don't factor the cost of ammunition since you have to fire something. It might as well be the good stuff. You should practice for accuracy with accurate ammunition. You can use the cheap stuff for shooting rocks in the sandbank behind your target. We could go into much more detail, but this is a start. Good luck!
 
Start reloading, find what the gun likes (dont be afraid to experiment with different powders, primers , brass and bullet combinations) and stick with it. I have a PH No4 mk1, when I got it it would do 4" groups at 100M. Now (after many fun hours of experimetation) it will do sub 1" groups at 100M. Not bad for a 70 year old rifle with 2 riflings.
 
na1lb0hm said:
Thank god you guys don't charge 0.25 per answer on this board! :D




From what I understand, to simplify everything, is basically putting a spacer between the gas cylinder lock and the gas cylinder, so that when you tighten the gas cylinder lock, it is tight against the gas cylinder @ the 12 position.
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The Shim should go between the front band and the barrel shoulder this ensures the gas ports line up correctly. By shiming between the gas lock and cylinder you push the cylinder back possibly moving the gas ports out of alignment. I think it might of been Hungry that sorted me out on that one. Most difficult part of shiming the gas system is removing the welded on flash hider so you can get the shims on the barrel theres a video how to do it in that stickie I linked to I am pretty sure.
 
so my flash hider is not welded on lucky me i took it off. The Gas lock would go past 6 o clock to 8 to i took it off and fliped it over now it starts to get tight at 4 and stops at 6.
 
saders said:
so my flash hider is not welded on lucky me i took it off. The Gas lock would go past 6 o clock to 8 to i took it off and fliped it over now it starts to get tight at 4 and stops at 6.
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Snug at 4, tight at 6.... Perfect :D
Now, with gas piston removed, use a 1/16ish straight object, back end of a drill bit, allen key or similar object, and pass it through the hole in bottom of gas cylinder. It should pass completely into the barrel. If it does... Perfect :D
If it does not, she needs a shimming.
Shimming is not necessary for all rifles and it's main purpose is to achieve optimal gas port alignment.
 
Freerider said:
The Shim should go between the front band and the barrel shoulder this ensures the gas ports line up correctly. By shiming between the gas lock and cylinder you push the cylinder back possibly moving the gas ports out of alignment. I think it might of been Hungry that sorted me out on that one. Most difficult part of shiming the gas system is removing the welded on flash hider so you can get the shims on the barrel theres a video how to do it in that stickie I linked to I am pretty sure.
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I stand corrected! thanks for sorting me out. That is very good to know, even from the stickies I was under the impression that the shim was between lock and cylinder.
 
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