Whats with all the cool new 'Black Rifles' being $2000 +

pbr streetgang said:
Here ya go....

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LOL

That might work for standard rediculous comments, but that one was a doooooooooozy.
 
It appears to me to be the exact opposite of what Shep posted.

With a couple of exceptions where it would not make sense to go too crazy with the price (Chinese imports, ie, Norc M14, etc.), all the Non-restricteds seem to be really high priced, compared with Restricteds of similar quality/reliability (predominantly ARs).

Of course, there are a couple of high priced Restricteds as well, but these are cool guns that will sell regardless of price.

So to me, it appears that we are paying more for certain rifles because they are NR. Imagine how well, XCRs and Sigs would sell at current prices if ARs were NR? Looking at the US market would give you a reasonable idea, I think.

I don't see the gun orgs (CSSA, etc.) pushing this much, but they are supported by dealers who stand to lose if ARs are made NR.

Again, just my two cents, so take it or leave it.

Regards.

Mark
 
MWL said:
It appears to me to be the exact opposite of what Shep posted.

With a couple of exceptions where it would not make sense to go too crazy with the price (Chinese imports, ie, Norc M14, etc.), all the Non-restricteds seem to be really high priced, compared with Restricteds of similar quality/reliability (predominantly ARs).

Of course, there are a couple of high priced Restricteds as well, but these are cool guns that will sell regardless of price.

So to me, it appears that we are paying more for certain rifles because they are NR. Imagine how well, XCRs and Sigs would sell at current prices if ARs were NR? Looking at the US market would give you a reasonable idea, I think.

I don't see the gun orgs (CSSA, etc.) pushing this much, but they are supported by dealers who stand to lose if ARs are made NR.

Again, just my two cents, so take it or leave it.

Regards.

Mark
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This is actually exactly what I said... or tried to say... :confused:
 
Well, I can't go back and read it again, because what you wrote has been replaced by a photo of you in your kinky outfit, but it seemed to me (and I read it twice to be sure) that you were implying the opposite.

That is, they are priced high, and then classified, whereas I, and apparently you also, think it is the other way around.

Regards.

Mark
 
No it's not. Not when you can get a genuine Colt AR for $1000 in the US. And certainly not if you are on minimum wage.

We get gouged up here, although with the new NEAs and COREs, the prices are starting to fall, surprise, surprise.

Regards.

Mark
 
I don't really care what a rifle costs.......

what I don't like is paying $2500 and doing alot of tweaking and messing with it for it to run flawlessly.....

You would think for a $2500 rifle it would run like a Swiss watch right out of the box.....but some don't.
 
Using AR as a basis is just bit naive, when you can purchase 80% AR forgings at almost the same price as hunk of raw aluminum and most of your AR sub components can be purchased from other ready supplies.
There really isn't much in-house machining or manufacturing left in building an AR.
 
No it's not.

As an aside, a raw AR forging costs in the region of $12 (someone looked into this the other day on another thread). Compare that to what 80% machined forgings sell for. So someone is making a lot of money for a bit of time on a CNC machine.

What people are saying, is that retailers would be sitting with shelves full of XCRs, etc. if they tried to charge the same prices they do today if ARs were NR. The only reason XCRs, etc. are so popular here is because they are NR.

De-restricting the AR in Canada will be fought by certain segments of the gun community, mostly for financial reasons. The same thing would happen in the US if the decision to allow production and sale of FA firearms was brought up.

Regards.

Mark
 
hbean said:
Using AR as a basis is just bit naive, when you can purchase 80% AR forgings at almost the same price as hunk of raw aluminum and most of your AR sub components can be purchased from other ready supplies.
There really isn't much in-house machining or manufacturing left in building an AR.
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Not only that, but the huge AR market in the U.S. also helps to keep prices there down. Rifles are selling for what they are selling for because that is the market price of them. It's not price gouging, it is the fair price determined by supply and demand. For certain guns like the Colt 6920, there is very little supply, and they are very difficult to get into the country, hence the inflated price here. For others (LMT for instance), the price is only a few hundred more than in the U.S.

For many rifles like the Swiss Arms, the selling price is, for all intents and purposes, the same as in Europe.
 
There is nothing fair about "supply and demand". All that is, is a nicer way of saying "charge as much as we can get away with".

If you look at a different "market", the people who most want drugs to stay illegal are the people selling them. Imagine what would happen if drugs were legalized? Who would lose money?

The same thing happens here. Small amounts of something means big prices, so why bother to bring in more Colts, DD etc. when you can sell a few "rare" items for big sums, and fight any move to bring in more at the risk of devaluing what is already on the market here.

I have already seen this argument debated in the US regarding FA.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, etc. but I don't see anyone coming up with proof for any other explanation.

Regards.

Mark
 
MWL said:
The same thing happens here. Small amounts of something means big prices, so why bother to bring in more Colts, DD etc. when you can sell a few "rare" items for big sums, and fight any move to bring in more at the risk of devaluing what is already on the market here.
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Or maybe there's just not that big of a black rifle market above 3k in Canada.
 
MWL said:
No it's not.

As an aside, a raw AR forging costs in the region of $12 (someone looked into this the other day on another thread). Compare that to what 80% machined forgings sell for. Like $80 in the U.S. You should also note that CNC equipment is expensive, and the fixtures required to produce lowers in any quantity are expensive to buy or time consuming to produce. The lower cost of completed lowers has to do with economy of scale and contracting with larger firms (like Aero Precision) to produce very large quantities of a specific item. So someone is making a lot of money for a bit of time on a CNC machine.

What people are saying, is that retailers would be sitting with shelves full of XCRs, etc. if they tried to charge the same prices they do today if ARs were NR. The only reason XCRs, etc. are so popular here is because they are NR.

De-restricting the AR in Canada will be fought by certain segments of the gun community, mostly for financial reasons. The same thing would happen in the US if the decision to allow production and sale of FA firearms was brought up.

Regards.

Mark
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Why? Most dealers that sell the NR black rifles also sell AR's. It would slightly decrease demand for the "other" black rifles, but in many cases, you make more off an AR than something like a Swiss Arms anyway (for the same $$$ investment).

Also, the cost of production for these "other" black rifles is higher than that of an AR. Just examine a Swiss Arms and the over all quality of the rifle, and you can tell that a lot more time and work was put into it than most AR's.

You also have some Restricted firearms like the KAC SR15 or H&K MR223 that are more expensive than the exotic "other" black rifles, yet these sell very well too (when they're available). In the U.S., they would love to be able to get their hands on some of the stuff like Tavors, that we can get here... So even in the U.S., there is a demand for high end rifles.
 
MWL said:
There is nothing fair about "supply and demand". All that is, is a nicer way of saying "charge as much as we can get away with".

If you look at a different "market", the people who most want drugs to stay illegal are the people selling them. Imagine what would happen if drugs were legalized? Who would lose money?

The same thing happens here. Small amounts of something means big prices, so why bother to bring in more Colts, DD etc. when you can sell a few "rare" items for big sums, and fight any move to bring in more at the risk of devaluing what is already on the market here.

I have already seen this argument debated in the US regarding FA.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, etc. but I don't see anyone coming up with proof for any other explanation.

Regards.

Mark
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Importers put a value on their time. If it takes them 10 hours to do the paperwork to import a single rifle, it's going to be sold for a lot more than a batch of 100 rifles that took 30 mins to do all of the paperwork for. What you are saying in regards to the drugs example is true to a degree. If anyone could just bring a Colt 6920 back from the U.S. without hassle, we would see that reflected in their price. That is; however, not the case.

If it would be easy to bring in these "rare" items that are common stateside, why not enter the import business yourself? I remember a while ago that I said when someone brings in a Colt 6920 for under $1500, I'd buy it on the spot. If it's so easy, and the dealers are just "gouging", show me wrong and put your money where your mouth is.

Import/Export is a lot of work, especially for goods like firearms. You'd be crazy to think that someone wouldn't charge for their time/hassle in doing so.
 
I'll see what I can do when I am at SHOT in a few weeks. I have a meeting planned this week with someone I do a bit of work for, and who has enough clout/contacts/financing to back something. I can't say any more than that at present.

Regards.

Mark
 
Ar180shooter said:
Import/Export is a lot of work, especially for goods like firearms. You'd be crazy to think that someone wouldn't charge for their time/hassle in doing so.
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Your theory doesn't hold true for other firearms....this is what I was getting at:confused:
Why does import/export add cost to 'black rifles' and not the others I listed:redface:
 
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