M14 Broken Bolt - Need Replacment

I agree, exactly what he typed! Always good to play it safe! And :cool: I ain't an M14 expert like a gunsmith (M14Doctor). I am out of my league on this one! :eek:

:cheers:

Barney

aw' c'mon, if you ain't you're damned close- i've been on this board for years and you seem to be the go to guy whenever a fella has trouble with the '14- esp the newer 'kids" - however, a man has to know his limitations- when i started watching this board there was only yourself, mystic, and skulboy who knew anything about the '14, and we still had access to some of rooster 33's products, although he's disappeared - i've gained a good deal of what i know through real world and what different has published- that's WHY i know there's a difference between 7.62mm nato guages and 308 winchester guages- and no, they're not common or interchangable
 
Mine are Forster. The nato ones are just a bit longer... ...if the zombie apocalypse arrives and all that is available is 7.62 then all I have to do ream my 308 chamber a little deeper;)
R
 
I'd love to know if the round that blew up the bolt had any case damage after ejection. Like a cracked base or blown out primer. It's not a common occurance by any stretch.
 
yea, but this is the ONE instance where you need 7.62 guages, NOT 308 winchester guages- i have never seen a set of those outside of the military armourer's kit

You can get 7.62 Nato gauges from Manson Precision Reamers' ...

...http://www.mansonreamers.com/

Or from Forster via Brownells...

...http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=41040/psize=24/Product/7-62-NATO-MAXIMUM-CHAMBER-GAUGE
 
yea, but this is the ONE instance where you need 7.62 guages, NOT 308 winchester guages- i have never seen a set of those outside of the military armourer's kit

Brownells will sell you all the 7.62 NATO headspace gauges you want and you have 3 different manufacturers to choose from.
 
I'd love to know if the round that blew up the bolt had any case damage after ejection. Like a cracked base or blown out primer. It's not a common occurance by any stretch.

I know.....very strange how it happened. I did not pick up the cases after a few magazine changes so I did not know which case was the last round but I did pick up all the brass. Not a mark on any of them. Also almost no perceptable sound diffrence after the round went down range. Farthest piece of metal was maybe six inches from the rifle sitting on the shooting bench.
 
Brownells will sell you all the 7.62 NATO headspace gauges you want and you have 3 different manufacturers to choose from.

They will sell you the guages... BUT for these rifles and their M852 chamber, there are specific US military guages, which I have not seen for sale anywhere. I got mine from a friend and ex armourer several years back. When it comes to .308 guages for the M852 chamber, I only use CLYMER guages.
 
I thought that the differences in chamber reamers was in the freebore and neck.

Don't the various chambers maintain the same shoulder angle?

If such is the case, I'd suggest that the guages I am familiar with, which only measure bolt face to shoulder, should be interchangeable for all practical purposes.

R
 
They will sell you the guages... BUT for these rifles and their M852 chamber, there are specific US military guages, which I have not seen for sale anywhere. I got mine from a friend and ex armourer several years back. When it comes to .308 guages for the M852 chamber, I only use CLYMER guages.

Ok, stupid question time. Why would the Chinese build 7.62 NATO M14 copy service rifles using a tighter M852 match chamber reamer just to them have most of them reamed to beyond minimum headspace when they are manufactured?
It doesn't make sense, I could see doing this if you were chambering a rifle with a match barrel to fire match ammunition but not at a Chinese factory that produces chrome lined barrels that will probably only ever fire standard issue 7.62 military ammunition and are meant to be reliable under any service conditions.
 
To the best of my knowledge, usgi m14 barrels are M852 chamber specs. The top guns in the US have exstensively tested the chinese barrel and find them to be dimensionally on par with usgi, including the chrome lining.
The armourers manuals list the clymer 852 as the reamer to use for M14 barrels. A specialy modified m1garand reamer is used to alter chamber specs with chrome lined barrels but this is a highly specialized procedure.
Commercial barrel manufacturers such as Krieger and Douglas also utilize the same chamber spec. This will also be the case with the McGowen barrels we are involved in producing.
 
They will sell you the guages... BUT for these rifles and their M852 chamber, there are specific US military guages, which I have not seen for sale anywhere. I got mine from a friend and ex armourer several years back. When it comes to .308 guages for the M852 chamber, I only use CLYMER guages.

I emailed "Manson Precision Reamers" and they told me they would custom make a set of Go, No-Go, Field Reject (1.6350", 1.6405", 1.6455") gauges. At that time (about 3 years ago) I think they quoted a price of $50 / gauge because they would be a custom job. The SAMMI spec gauges (1.630", 1.634", 1.638") they did have "in stock" and cost only $30 each...

...Who knows they may carry the USGI gauges as a regular product now, I haven't checked back with them in a while.

Extremely Nice (and helpful) people to do business with - as are, IMO, MOST US small businesses.
 
Yup, the guys at Manson are simply outstanding to deal with. I only use Manson and Clymer guages for the firearms I own and work on, whenever possible. From personal experience, I'll never trust another forster guage period as I have found them to be inconsistant. Fine for checking headspace in a factory built firearm but for custom applications, as a rifle builder, I will not trust them.
 
Hopefully I will have a couple new bolts arriving soon due to the generosity of a fellow CGN member and a very reasonable price. Next issue is head space and check over by a really good riflesmith :). Then I will be shooting again.
 
Back when I cared about headspace in the m14 type rifle (I was doing a lot of rebarrelings projects on Chinese guns) I had both clymer and Manson make me a massive set of gauges in 1 thou increments from 0.002 below SAAMI GO all the way to 0.005 past 7.62 NATO field reject....my observation, having measured many dozen factory Chinese guns with their factory bolts? The Chinese headspace their guns LONG and there is a good chance that they are even longer than 7.62 NATO field reject. That and the common method of measuring headspace with an RCBS precision mic is a worthless exercise in a semi (action acts too fast and stretches brass, indicating longer headspace than what the rifle actually has).

My opinion is that if you are replacing your Chinese bolt with another Chinese bolt, there is no risk at all of having a gun headspaced too tight. I used to worry about long headspace, but no longer and now only worry that long headspace would result in poor brass life and/or case/head separation if massively excessive.

I would be more interested to know what caused your original bolt to fail....and wonder to what extent your bolt was closed when that last round was fired. I would also be giving close inspection to the receiver's condition at the bolt locking recesses....any sign of deformation (like what might happen if the bolt lug was only 20% engaged)?

Cheers, and happy holiday!

Brobee
 
My data shows that in most cases , the 2009 import year and newer bolts, fit the pre 2009 rifles just fine and in MOST cases that I have had on my bench, tend to shrink headspace measurements by up to 5thou when these bolts are fitted to the pre 2009 barrelled receivers.
I've also, since the 2009's started arriving on the bench, found most to be 5 to 6 thou tighter than previous import years.
On average, out of 89 2009 rifles this year, average headspace measured 1.638 and I'd say this applied to 2/3 of the 89 across the bench. The remaining 1/3 varied between 1.634" and 1.636", with 2 measuring 1.632". These were ALL 2009 stamped , standard barrel.
I'd consider these chambers as just fine for a rack grade M14 of any kind and an improvement at the assembly level over in china. For interest sake, the average pre 2009 import, and of these I've handled several 100, possibly more than 500. Avverage headspace for these is/was 1.640/1.641" with the odd one over 1.644" and the odd one under 1.640"
Enough of all that mumbo jumbo.
What it basically translates to is, if I was looking or needing to replace a bolt in a pre 2009 rifle , I'd look for a 2009 or newer bolt. I would not see putting a pre 2009 bolt in a 2009 and newer as I don't think it would be advantagious as far as headspace is concerned.
Runt, I'd also suggest flipping over the receiver and very carefully inspect the under side of the left bolt lug recess as the bottom edge of the bearing surface is not supported by a whole lot of steel and if the bearing surfaces of the lug recess where to be damaged, the left underside is where I'd start my inspections.
I'd love to see the broken bolt first hand. Will also inspect and if the receiver is okay, will install your new bolt. You pay only shipping. ;)
 
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My data shows that in most cases , the 2009 import year and newer bolts, fit the pre 2009 rifles just fine and in MOST cases that I have had on my bench, tend to shrink headspace measurements by up to 5thou when these bolts are fitted to the pre 2009 barrelled receivers.

So what you're saying is, if my 2007 Norc is over indexed, all I might need is a new 2009 bolt when I get my barrel indexed properly?

I like the sounds of this! Saves me from ordering in from the U.S.
 
So what you're saying is, if my 2007 Norc is over indexed, all I might need is a new 2009 bolt when I get my barrel indexed properly?

I like the sounds of this! Saves me from ordering in from the U.S.

Changing a bolt won't solve your barrel index issues.
 
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