I think what you are looking for is a round like the .300 blackout.
I am a fan of the 7.62x39, and I own an AK which I shoot the sh*t out of. But for a short barreled AR, a .300 blackout is a much better choice IMO.
PDW builds - Lets see them, and share results
- Thread starter AbHobbyist
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I think what you are looking for is a round like the .300 blackout.
I am a fan of the 7.62x39, and I own an AK which I shoot the sh*t out of. But for a short barreled AR, a .300 blackout is a much better choice IMO.
ColassalEntry
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Most manufacturers offer match grade/ commercial versions of 7.62 sov. Its mega popular in the states.
Agreed. With the .300 Blackout, you've got 7.62x39mm ballistics and the option of shooting subsonic rounds if you wanted to try them. Trying to make 7.62x39mm in an AR work well is like swimming against a strong current. You might reach your destination but you'll be damn tired of it when you do.
The only outright advantage 7.62x39mm has over .300 Blackout is the availability of cheap surplus ammo. If that's all you're ever going to shoot from your AR, then that's a big plus providing you can get the weapon to run reliably.
AbH, are you thinking of purchasing a whole new upper for the AR or are you simply looking to shorten the barrel of your existing platform and making the necessary adjustments to the gas system? I don't see where you've indicated otherwise.
If you're planning to modify what you already have, it would make sense cost wise to consider that. If you're looking to build another upper to compliment the 16" barrelled one you already own, then I'd probably just go the Blackout route and be done with it, knowing that the Blackout already works at PDW barrel lengths is better than trying to duplicate the same ballistics with an unknown quantity.
I applaud your efforts though. Sometimes the most rewarding things in life aren't most easily achieved. If this is your pet project, so be it...
Who is disputing that? That wasn't the guy's question.
I'd recommend no more recommend match grade ammo than I would cheap corrosive surplus. Under the circumstances, both are a waste of money.
If you want to shoot corrosive ammo, buy yourself a SKS. That way if you accidentally do damage it by not cleaning it properly, who cares?
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I have to disagree with that, to me a god quality rifle should be able to shoot any ammo with no problem what so ever.
Yes my question was about cleaning piston AR's after corrosive ammo and yes I know there is non corrosive ammo available in 7.62x39. Seems that the 300 Blackout keeps popping up maybe its something to consider but where would one get bulk ammo? Unless I've been living in a cave I have not seen any available and Remington selling it for current prices doesn't make it economical to shoot.
If it's bulk ammo you are looking for, you're S.O.L. unfortunately.
However, if you are into reloading it's not a difficult round to produce.
Alex at Robinson Arms has done some testing with 300 Blackout in particular sub sonic rounds, one thing became quit clear was sub sonic 300 Blackout doesn't have enough pressure to cycle the piston consistantly with any barrel longer 10".
Ya i reload but only for my hunting rifles. My preference for the range...handguns and AR's ...is bulk ammo.
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2bad4u2
Could you please qualify the above statment??
Were you refering to:
-the use of standard (sonic) ammo
-the use of subsonic ammo
-7.62x39 AR's with barrels shorter than 10.5"
a combination of the above
I have considered the 300 Blackout/221 fireball etc, I reload and am well equiped to do so. That being said at the time I was considering it brass was very difficult to find, and had to be built, so each case became a bit of a labour of love. Futher, lets face it, policing precious brass out of an AR can be a daunting and painstaking process. Never mind trying to train with it, or take a course with it, were brass policing is extremely difficult.
So to my way of thinking, enter 7.62x39. Similar balistics in the sonic realm, with brass policing (aside from clean up wich can be done with a leaf rake) is a none issue.
Has the brass situation for the above mentioned 300 changed??
As for modifying my exisiting carbine 7.62x39, the crux of the matter is the barrel. The one I have is a colt and the letter of the law aside, I would hate to change it as it seems to be working very well.
So a entire differnet upper will need to be built. Finding a short barrel, may well be difficult, but I suppose it could be built/machined.
Please continue to share your experiences, and I look forward to further comment.
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I picked up a 16" 7.62 X 39 AR upper from Dlask just before the Holidays, Joe builds his barrels in house using Lothar blanks, so getting a short length barrel shouldn't be that hard.
One thing I notice is that Czech surplus uses the harded military primer, so an upgrade to a heavy hammer spring will be required to ensure reliability.
One thing I notice is that Czech surplus uses the harded military primer, so an upgrade to a heavy hammer spring will be required to ensure reliability.
My comment was in regards to getting the 7.62x39mm surplus ammo to run reliably in your chosen barrel length. All surplus ammo is of course supersonic. Seeing that you're going to need a new upper built, would I be incorrect in saying that there isn't likely a lot of info out there regarding 7.5" 7.62x39mm AR's? Doesn't sound like a common set-up.
Starting from scratch, you'll no doubt have to make adjustments to your gas system, buffer assembly, and other related items to make things work well. My point was that there may very well be a lot of teething pains to get a non-standard combination to function flawlessly and that you may be better off with an off-the-shelf option that would save you time, money, and agrivation. That's why I mentioned the .300 Blackout option as others have done so.
If you do decide to modify what you already have, there's some interesting things to consider. I don't necessarily believe that you'd be in a precarious legal situation by shortening your existing barrel. The way the law is written is that you can't shorten an existing factory barrel less than 18.5", correct? Well, your factory barrel is already less than that, so is there any law against shortening it at all at that point? Maybe, maybe not. Starting fresh with a factory produced short barrelled upper takes doubt out of the equation. Another advantage for the .300 Blackout.
On the flip side of that, you could just start with a new barrel blank and cut it to any length you desire and not worry about runing afoul of the law providing that the firearm met OAL minimum length. Now the fun really begins as there's not a great deal of selection out there for .311" diameter after market barrels. You may be limited here in choice. Regardless, if you find just one source you're good to go.
I fully agree with you. Policing custom made brass all over the range doesn't sound like a fun time to me. Yes, the brass is easy to make but it is time consuming and I can appreciate your reluctance in doing so. I loathe the process but it's a necessary evil at this point in time.
Having said that, I'm hoping that Gravel Agency will eventually be in a position to supply factory made .300 Blackout brass but it's hard to say when or if they will do so. My calls to them were made in vain as they didn't have a clue that the cartridge even existed. Never mind the fact that Gravel is listed AAC distributor! (the company's namesake adorns the cartridge's name)...
I did send an e-mail to Robert Silvers expressing my concerns regarding brass and ammo availability. I mentioned to him that there seems to be a decent level of interest here in Canada to support the cartridge. The least they could do is make factory brass and the now available Remington UMC 115gr. supersonic loading for volume shooters on a budget. In the US, the UMC ammo is around $12/box of 20 rounds. He said he'd look into getting the ammo approved for Canadian sale. Wether he's successful or not is anyone's guess.
I like the idea of a SBR in 7.62x39mm but I'm not so sure if your needs are better served elsewhere with the .300 Blackout option.
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Was the tests done with piston AR's or his rifles? Also, where the tests done suppressed or non-suppressed? The subsonic round was designed to to be shot with a suppressor, but it should cycle without. I bet he was shooting non-suppressed, and a suppressor would fix that.
I think you might want to check your facts on the subsonic round being designed for supressor use only. I don't believe that to be the case.
If it was Alex Robinson doing the tests it would be on his own rifles. He has nothing to gain from testing AR's.
And hence the reason I will never buy anything from RA, he doesn't know what he is talking about. Barrel length has sweet FA to do with it. The important factor is the length of the gas system. Subsonics require a short pistol length has system to work properly. You could run subsonics through a 20" barrel Reliably as long as the gas system was pistol length.
