Vortex's Warranty = Good | Vortex's Turrets = Not as good

Cale262 said:
I bought a Razor HD more than a year ago for my 338lm, Iwas so impressed with it that I bought a PST for one of my 308's. It's still in the box but I'm crossing my fingers now hoping the PST will be as nice to me as my Razor HD.
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it can't be "as nice" it half the price
 
Haagen_Dazs said:
It's beyond me why it's so hard to find an FFP mil/mil scope in 6-24 range magnification. I'm really hoping Sightron will get on board but from what I can see, SHOT 2012 didn't show much in that regard. The Leupolds are alright, but more expensive and with unattractive reticles.

I hope my Falcon gets here soon. It just may be the answer to my problem.
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Found one, Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 Illuminated Reticle
 
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So my conversations on Sniper's Hide (here) have led me to believe that this issue with the turrets is 100% deisgn flaw. In order to get a scope that tracks a true box and has limited internals to avoid the PST's shortcomming, the only scopes I have heard will work are the S&B and Premiers.

Despite my dishearting and honest ad, my PST sold. Depending on how much I like the Falcon I have coming my way, I may or may not get another PST. If I do, I will be sure to map out the turrets actual abilities and I urge you to do the same, regardless of brand name (then share the results here!).

If you're looking for a scope that can track as advertised in the $1000 price range, I'd suggest looking into the Sightron SIII series; I have heard great things about them from Jerry at Mystic Precision and when I had mine I did not run into any problems.


When I get the chance I'll make posts about different brand name's turrets capabilities and we can slowly disambiguate which brand has legit turrets and which brands need special attention.


I hope this helps some people having similar issues!



Below is a great example of a scope tracking map similar to a Premier scope (Left). As you can see, they limit the amount of elevation so you can always use all the advertised windage and not run into the problems I have with my Vortex. The scope on the right is an example of the Vortex design; you are not limited to the elevation, but at max elevation, windage adjustment is restricted:

elevation_windage.jpg
 
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HD, thanks for the referal.

There is a large post in the precision forum on exactly this - how scopes from various companies actually function in the real world. You might consider aiding your thoughts there too.

The issue of limited windage for enhanced elevation is not unique and has been offered by various companies over the years.

The big difference is these companies disclose the range of functions. Most of these products also came with some form of multi point reticle making it less necessary to dial for windage.

Regardless of the brand, you need to test to prove to yourself what you have on your rifle and how it will work for you.

I am a very strong supporter of Sightron and their SIII line up has some of the best in the biz. However, there are a few lemons in their product line.

Here the problem is a loss of optical qualities at extremes of travel. Image quality falls off badly. So the "effective" adjustment range is quite a bit less. More adj then most will ever use but not something I can sell without disclosure.

It still sells and feedback has been positive but for me, I much prefer to have a product do everything it suggests it can do,

YMMV.

Jerry
 
Feedback has been nothing but positive for the Vortex too, which was the main reason I was going mad when I originally posted here.



And as far as the Sightrons go; as soon as they come out with something in FFP, you can add me to the top of the want list. For now I'm going to gamble on Falcon before sadly returning to Sightron's SFP world.
 
They need to do something similar to Bushnell's new HDMR (reticle being a key thing) as well, but preferably with illumination as an option. Even Leupold has wised up to that with their new Mark 8.
 
Haagen_Dazs said:
Feedback has been nothing but positive for the Vortex too, which was the main reason I was going mad when I originally posted here.



And as far as the Sightrons go; as soon as they come out with something in FFP, you can add me to the top of the want list. For now I'm going to gamble on Falcon before sadly returning to Sightron's SFP world.
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have you tested the sightron to see if it functions the same as a vortex?
 
Just ran a quick test on my PST 6-24x50 FFP MOA this evening.

I attached my magnetic bore sighter that uses a grid image with 18MOA grid squares. The PST tracks and returns to zero flawlessly, and each click is exactly 0.25MOA, as advertised. With the windage mechanically zero'd, there is 69MOA of usable elevation- more than the 65MOA advertised. My rifle is zero'd with the windage 5.75MOA right of center, and at that setting, I have 68MOA of usable elevation. With the windage set to the extreme right side of its range, there was only 22MOA of elevation travel.
 
So you had a Sightron SIII, then went to a Vortex Viper PST and now your going to a Falcon. Hope it works out for you bud but you're sure going down in quality each step. The Falcon I used was on a .22 LR and it was OK at best.
 
Haagen_Dazs said:
Was that 22 MoA of internal travel with the external turret still able to rotate or did the external turret seize and stop turning?
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Internal travel. The turret still rotates, but the reticle stops moving, or else starts traveling in an arc, following the circumference of the scope tube that the erector is rubbing along.
 
Jordan Smith said:
Can't say I agree with that. These two scopes are quite different, and each has pros and cons.
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When I consider quality I look at the whole scope and research the number of complaints about it ect... Vipers PST's are not a consistent product. Ive read here (CGN) PST users are saying glass in one PST model is better then glass in the other, that right there veers me away. Tracking seems to be an issue in some PST's as well. Do a google search on Sightron SIII's and there is basically nothing but positives.
I think the Viper PST's are a good product but they need to work their bugs out. Sightron's track record just seems worlds ahead.
Like Mystic and other guys shooting long range are saying,,you dont see many Viper PST's in LR shooting comps. Sightrons...yes.
Just my opinion, not trying troll or anything.

Cheers!!
 
I CAN agree with all that, for certain.

If you get a good PST, it seems to be every bit the equal or better of the SIII, but they're not all created equal, as you say.
 
Jordan Smith said:
Internal travel. The turret still rotates, but the reticle stops moving, or else starts traveling in an arc, following the circumference of the scope tube that the erector is rubbing along.
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This is exactly what I was told was normal by the Vortex techs and is also what turned me away from the product. Now I have my SWFA SS HD and will not be switching it out for anything else.



scott_r said:
So you had a Sightron SIII, then went to a Vortex Viper PST and now your going to a Falcon. Hope it works out for you bud but you're sure going down in quality each step. The Falcon I used was on a .22 LR and it was OK at best.
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I didn't buy the Falcon thinking it would be better than the Sightron, I knew perfectly well it wouldn't be that great and sold it before I even mounted it.



scott_r said:
I think the Viper PST's are a good product but they need to work their bugs out. Sightron's track record just seems worlds ahead.
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Comapring the Sightron to the Vortex is like apples to oranges. One is a target shooting scope and the other is a 'tactical' FFP. Same price, but not same intended use. With that being said, if Sightron would come out with an FFP scope with a good looking reticle, I'd for sure give one a try.
 
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