AR 15 best optic for CQB

[Sititunga]

I have a trijicon accupoint tr24 1-4x. Its a good intermediate optic, but not as fast as an aimpoint or eotech. Plus the cost of it with a good mount is significantly over 800.

Shooting with both eyes open your Trijicon should be just as fast. I suppose it also depends on what reticle you`ve got. By just using a red dot your not maximizing the potential of the AR15 platform, especially if you want to reach out to 500 - 600 yards. I`ve shot in action rifle matches against people who are just using red dots and when it comes to identifying and shooting targets at 200 and 300 yards the red dot only guys really struggle.

 

[cp220]

Shooting with both eyes open your Trijicon should be just as fast. I suppose it also depends on what reticle you`ve got. By just using a red dot your not maximizing the abilities of the AR15 platform, especially if you want to reach out to 500 - 600 yards. I`ve shot in action rifle matches against people who are just using red dots and when it comes to identifying and shooting targets at 200 and 300 yards the red dot only guys really struggle.

I do shoot with both eyes open with the triangle reticle. It is fast, but not as fast as an eothingy or aimpoint. I doubt many if any people shoot just as fast with a variable as a red dot. Close but not as fast.

The OP indicated he's shooting at 25 to 50 yards, 100 yards max and is looking for a red dot without magnification with a mount for around 800. I assure you that I'm well aware of the pro's of a variable power optic and that's why I own one, however that is not the question being asked by the OP. A trijicon will run you around 900 bucks, and a larue or adm mount another 200ish. So now he's 300 dollars over budget and not getting what he's looking for.

 

[Gunnerlove]

I own an EOtech XPS2-0, never failed, over 1000 rds fired with it! Extremely accurate and holds zero. I have easy hit a 6"x4' Brick at 75-80m kneeling on one knee...at the bench indoor at 40m I have shot 1/4" - 1/2" groups with 5.56mm 55gr FMJ. Standing 25m and 30m both eyes open I can run 6" center mass groups with quick followup shots

The only negative is I have an astigmatism, either I use polarized sunglasses or my regular reading glasses at the indoor range and that clears it up. Without those the DOT becomes distorted in a weird way.

I never tried an Aimpoint or Trijjicon yet. I also own an ELCAN Specter Dr 1.5x6, excellent scope but its around $2500 NIB.

1000 rnds is a decent day at the range. How did the rest of the week go?

 

[enefgee]

I find illuminated "dots" to be blurry.....Eotech's more so than Aimpoints.
If I really needed a red dot on a CQB AR I would choose the Aimpoint T1 or H1(since its for range use only) with 2MOA (better @ 100yrds) for all the reasons mentioned in the previous posts. While my CompML(?) 4MOA worked great on my CQB...lighter and smalller is the way to go.
Personally, for your intended use I would just get a good set of irons. Not as "cool" but they work!

That probably means you have a mild asigmatism.

 

[Sititunga]

I do shoot with both eyes open with the triangle reticle. It is fast, but not as fast as an eothingy or aimpoint. I doubt many if any people shoot just as fast with a variable as a red dot. Close but not as fast.

I think it's hard to compare the Trijicon triangle against an Aimpoint or EO reticle as it's not as bright. That might explain why you're not as fast.

 

[ogradyrw]

1000 rnds is a decent day at the range. How did the rest of the week go?

The 1000rds was not shot in one day...I usually average 120-200 max every visit to the range, but more common is the 120rd mark because I have to budget as I do not reload.

 

[enefgee]

The 1000rds was not shot in one day...I usually average 120-200 max every visit to the range, but more common is the 120rd mark because I have to budget as I do not reload.

Might want to consider a Sparc for now, and use the saved money for reloading gear - you really need to reload to feed these rifles, they'll run through ammo like Oprah runs through smarties. At the current retail price of .223 it's not really feasible, but for the cost of the 120 rounds you're shooting now (even if it's absolute crap) you could be shooting over 300 rounds of good quality (equivalent to premium) ammunition. Reloading equipment does not need to be hugely expensive production grade equipment - for an AR a little Lee 4 station turret press will turn out a decent quantity of "cost conscious" ball equivalent in a couple of hours a week. The gear will pay for itself in no time. The combined cost of the Sparc and the press will be half the cost of some of the optics sugested here.

 

[KevinB]

The point being made is 1,000 rds is a useless number in terms of being able to offer feedback from a durability standpoint.

As an example I have about 25,000 rds of 7.62 on the Leupold 1.1-8x CQBSS, and about 4k on their new 1-6, the only reason I beleive the 1-6 will hold up is due to my experiences with the 1-8 rapelling, ATV'ing and seeing a bunch of tother stuff done to them.

On the EO's I have personally witnessed too many (in excess of 200) lie down and Die -- with Aimpoints, I have seen I think 7 die in the same period and have more Aimpoints as a sample size.

 

[Sititunga]

The point being made is 1,000 rds is a useless number in terms of being able to offer feedback from a durability standpoint.

As an example I have about 25,000 rds of 7.62 on the Leupold 1.1-8x CQBSS, and about 4k on their new 1-6, the only reason I beleive the 1-6 will hold up is due to my experiences with the 1-8 rapelling, ATV'ing and seeing a bunch of tother stuff done to them.

On the EO's I have personally witnessed too many (in excess of 200) lie down and Die -- with Aimpoints, I have seen I think 7 die in the same period and have more Aimpoints as a sample size.

Kevin,

What's the latest on the 1-6 in terms of delivery to dealers? Also have you had a chance to look at the TMR style reticle being offered in the 1-6. If you have I'd be curious to get a look at the reticle fully illuminated. I'm guessing it won't be the entire reticle that gets lit for CQB on x1.

 

[KevinB]

I have one here - 1 sec

 

[KevinB]

Okay CMW reticle

Only Horseshoe illuminates (civilized folsk use NV for night work) so reticle is for CQB applications.

Pics where taken at 6x -- sorry I will take another later at 1x for the

 

[TDC]

I think it's hard to compare the Trijicon triangle against an Aimpoint or EO reticle as it's not as bright. That might explain why you're not as fast.

Depending on conditions, the Accupoint reticle is just as bright if not brighter than a reddot. I run my fibre optic window alteast 75% closed and that's on a mostly overcast day. Full open is bright enough to make the triangle bloom into a giant dot.

TDC

 

[Sititunga]

Thanks bro, what other reticle options are they offering in the Mk 6 1-6? The one above is the CMR, I suppose you don't have the TMR to hand?

That scope really is the nads!

 

[GLOCK_PERFECTION]

@ Kevin B

What is the barrel lenght on your AR15?

Is the pelican 1700 ok for an 14.5 ar15?

 

[kombayotch]

Pics where taken at 6x -- sorry I will take another later at 1x for the

That should shrink down to a dot at 1x

 

[CarbineOne]

While the Mk.6 1-6x is pretty nice from my limited handling and shooting, I'd still rather pay the difference and get the CQBSS w/ H27.

 

[KevinB]

On a 762NATO gun I agree -- but on a 14.5-16" 5.56mm gun, I think the 1-6 is a sweet deal.

Reticle is CMW - Jim Smith's newest, like the CMR or CMRR but has wind.

All the .gov options for the reticle on the 1-6 at this time are either CMW556 or CMW762.

Honestly the TMR is a horrible reticle in a sniper scope - and a worse reticle in the CQB realm


It is a 14.5" SBR
Pelican 1700 will fit it.

 

[Sititunga]

On a 762NATO gun I agree -- but on a 14.5-16" 5.56mm gun, I think the 1-6 is a sweet deal.

Reticle is CMW - Jim Smith's newest, like the CMR or CMRR but has wind.

All the .gov options for the reticle on the 1-6 at this time are either CMW556 or CMW762.

Honestly the TMR is a horrible reticle in a sniper scope - and a worse reticle in the CQB realm


It is a 14.5" SBR
Pelican 1700 will fit it.

Point take about the reticle - the only thing I dislike about a dedicated CMR type reticle though is that your contrained to some degree by bullet type and velocity. With a TMR you can play with different bullets, mil targets, and can throw the scope onto a different caliber gun. I really would like to get a look at the the TMR reticle with the illumination dialed up. I guess it's just a dot, rather than a horseshoe on the TMR - is that right?

I must admit I'm not a fan of the 1-8s any longer now that I have seen the prices. If I was going to run 7.62NATO DMR type rig I think I would be happier spending the same kind of money on 3-20 S&B or maybe Leupold's new Mark 6 3-18 (which is a nice compact scope) and an offset redot.

 

[kombayotch]

I prefer some kind of dot for CQB use when the scope is at low magnification. As I understand it, the TMR reticle in that scope is still just cross hairs. That is horrible...

Even though the 1-x scopes that came out this year were an improvement over what was available, they were still pretty disappointing. You would think that with all of the knowledge that these guys accumulated perfecting the FFP sniper scopes, that it would have clicked with them that those same features are usable here too. Yet, Leupold is the only one who got it right with the CQBSS w/ H27D combo. IOR would have too with that new 1-10x if it were 10 oz. lighter.

Sounds like Premier's new 1-8x may not be dead in the water (according to David and Paul). If they put the Gen2 XR reticle in it, they would be there too. It could be a little heavier, but even as is, it's still visible in my down to 3.5x in my PH (especially with the illumination on). I'd drop the coin for that if they did it.

 

[Sititunga]

IOR would have too with that new 1-10x if it were 10 oz. lighter.

And if the SFP illuminated dot reticle on this scope was Aimpoint bright daylight visible - which it is not.

I prefer some kind of dot for CQB use when the scope is at low magnification. As I understand it, the TMR reticle in that scope is still just cross hairs. That is horrible...

Yet, Leupold is the only one who got it right with the CQBSS w/ H27D combo. I

I can't see why Leupold can't offer the donut style FFP CQB reticle they offer in their Horus CQBSS in their Mk6 1-6 with the TMR.

Sounds like Premier's new 1-8x may not be dead in the water (according to David and Paul). If they put the Gen2 XR reticle in it, they would be there too. It could be a little heavier, but even as is, it's still visible in my down to 3.5x in my PH (especially with the illumination on). I'd drop the coin for that if they did it.

I think Premier`s scope is one of the most promising. I like the way it changes from the illuminated dot to reticle at x3. The only challenge is the $4k price point.