Rational choice for a Dangerous Game Rifle

[Claybuster]

I cannot see myself spending a dime over $1000 on this rifle.

Ever seen an angry buffalo? When he is charging and the #### is running down your leg about the last thing that you'll care about is how much money you saved buying a less expensive gun and not practicing with it to adapt to the recoil.

I was in Africa on business last month. People there endorsed the .375H&H as the minimum and the ammo is readily avaible. Not so much with the .375 Ruger. I didn't see it anywhere. While you can bring your own ammo why take the chance of lost luggage and not being able to hunt?

 

[hoytcanon]

I took my Cape Buffalo bull with .375 H&H, and I wouldn't offer any other option for you aside from the .375 Ruger.

A Ruger African in .375 Ruger is in your price range

To be honest I'm not sure what to make of your post, and please don't take this as an insult, but it doesn't sound likely you'll actually go through with it. Polar Bears, Grizzlies, in Ottawa? I don't presume you don't travel, just curious what you do that brings you in contact with the great bears, a geologist perhaps?

First... congrats on your buffalo... must have been an incredible experience...

Second... I agree on the .375 H&H or Ruger...

Third... I see that you are in Northern Alberta... so what brought you into proximity of that buffalo? Are you a geologist? ... Did you travel to shoot that beast, or did you get lucky and find it foraging in your back yard..?

 

[Ardent]

a lot of these( and what i know is 3rd hand information only) is that a lot of these countries that harbour dangerous game have it figured out so that the gun and ammo are part of the "package" ie you rent the gun along with the rest of it- all that being said, i'd use a gun that was DEVELOPED for dangerous game, ie the 460 weatherby or the winchester model 70 in 458 - there's a lot of places that state that the minimum bore is 40- so your 44-40 is legal , but your 375/378 30s are not,even though it makes no sense from a hunters pov

Where is .375 below minimum for Cape Buffalo? I've never heard of that. .375's the universal standard for Cape Buffalo as far as I'm aware. It is also plenty for taking one down, more doesn't hurt, but as others who've done it will also attest it is perfect for the task.

 

[CanadaBoy]

I agree with Ardent on this, if you buy new go for the Ruger African in 375 ruger. It is in your price range and will work 100% right out of the box.

The Ruger Alaskan would be an alternate choice if you like stainless, and is also available in 416 ruger, but as mentioned anything over 375 in a light rifle may have a negative impact on accuracy if you aren't used to it.

375 H&H ammo is more readily available than 375 ruger in Africa, but good new guns under $1000 don't exist (the zastavas may need some work to feed perfectly).

If you are open to a used rifle I would look for a 375 H&H, in a used CZ 550, Winchester 70, or maybe a Whitworth.

 

[t-star]

Where is .375 below minimum for Cape Buffalo? I've never heard of that. .375's the universal standard for Cape Buffalo as far as I'm aware. It is also plenty for taking one down, more doesn't hurt, but as others who've done it will also attest it is perfect for the task.

did you MISS the bit where i said the information i had was 3RD HAND?

 

[Ardent]

Ever seen an angry buffalo? When he is charging and the s**t is running down your leg about the last thing that you'll care about is how much money you saved buying a less expensive gun and not practicing with it to adapt to the recoil.

I was in Africa on business last month. People there endorsed the .375H&H as the minimum and the ammo is readily avaible. Not so much with the .375 Ruger. I didn't see it anywhere. While you can bring your own ammo why take the chance of lost luggage and not being able to hunt?

I actually agree 100% despite my endorsement of a .375 Ruger. I wouldn't pack a .375 Ruger to Africa for just this reason, have packed my .375 H&H accross a couple times with zero ammo anxieties.

First... congrats on your buffalo... must have been an incredible experience...

Second... I agree on the .375 H&H or Ruger...

Third... I see that you are in Northern Alberta... so what brought you into proximity of that buffalo? Are you a geologist? ... Did you travel to shoot that beast, or did you get lucky and find it foraging in your back yard..?

I removed your bold text, an annoying and self important habit in forum etiquette. No, I'm a pilot, and my first time over to Africa came as a sideways result of that. You posses a particularly strong variety of... Something. When a guy from Ottawa states he wants a rifle for Polar Bear and Grizzly guiding/defense, and Cape Buffalo hunting it piques one's curiousity.

 

[Ardent]

did you MISS the bit where i said the information i had was 3RD HAND?

No I saw it just swell, I expected you'd be able to provide the source though.

 

[geologist]

CZ550 in .375 H&H.

It's cheap, is a Mauser CRF action, has a big magazine and it has excellent express sights.

Slap a long ER, low power variable on it in QD rings and you're good to go.

This is what I'll be bringing to Namibia.

 

[oddione]

UPDATE:

I am also a private pilot and I travel to Iqaluit once a year (in the right seat..) with a friend. I've never seen a polar bear but I always wondered what would happen if we got stranded on some lake (we use skis on an #####) and polar bears were around. My pilot friend does not own guns.

As for grizzlies, I've gone once to Yukon with my uncle who is an entomologist (chases rare butterflies) and I carried around a 12ga pump (Winchester Defender.) That I never had to use (although we saw quite a few grizzlies.)

As for Africa, I AM going to do this trip on a budget. I would be willing to bump up my budget to 1500 only if that rifle can double as a bear gun. My friend's "Connection" will take us out for free and he is a retired guide. (I think he owes my friend a favor or something)

I'm sure there are other fees that will make my trip a lot more expensive than I had planned, but I'd rather go on a budget than not go at all.

The same uncle who hunt butterflies wants to go to Africa to chase them there in the next 5 years. We had the idea of a dual purpose trip (I hunt game he hunts butterflies and I watch out for dangerous game)

Not this summer, but the next one, I have a trip planned to the Yukon again with the same story.

I also weight 300lbs 6'2" so even through recoil might be painful, I don't think it will knock me over.

I am also fully set up for reloading

 

[Boomer]

The bore size of the rifle you choose should be in line with your shooting experience, with the proviso that a .375 H&H is generally considered the legal minimum. Most folks can learn to shoot a full sized rifle chambered for this cartridge without much difficulty, but as you want it to double as a bear gun you might be tempted to cut the barrel short and reduce the weight down to 8 pounds or so, in which case it's manner might be considered rude by some.

Either way, the .375 and the big cased .416s have proven to be very versatile for African game. They are not only suitable for a broad range of game but they are also quite capable of stretching their legs out to 300 yards or more should a longish shot be required. I would be inclined to choose a rifle with a 5 or 6 shot magazine, or at the very least choose one that can have its magazine modified to carry more than 3 rounds.

Dispense with this idea that a suitable rifle can be easily had for $1000, I think the days of those $1000 602s are past. If at any time your rifle is going to be used as a life saving tool, it must be 100% reliable, or as close to it as humanly possible. Reliability doesn't come cheaply. If your budget is limited, look for a suitable used rifle. Often a used big bore can be had by someone who bought it and found out after a couple of rounds it wasn't what they were looking for. I think there is a .458 Lott on the EE right now that falls into that category and is significantly discounted, but still costs half again as much as you have in mind. If you do find a deal on a big bore, but the rifle is chambered for more cartridge than you are competent with, handload for it and work up in recoil and blast as your comfort level allows, rather than letting the gun hurt you, in which case you might never master it.

 

[hoytcanon]

I removed your bold text, an annoying and self important habit in forum etiquette.

No, I'm a pilot, and my first time over to Africa came as a sideways result of that.

You posses a particularly strong variety of... Something.

When a guy from Ottawa states he wants a rifle for Polar Bear and Grizzly guiding/defense, and Cape Buffalo hunting it piques one's curiousity.

I added BOLD text to your quote to make the portion I am referring to stand out...

So you are a pilot... and so is "Oddione..." so despite all that skepticism, you two have something in common.

I would have said that you "possess a particularly strong variety of... something" also...

So when a guy from "Northern Alberta" says that he shot a Cape Buffalo, should that pique one's curiosity also???

Im a pilot too, based at CYRO.

Good luck on your trip and with your firearm.

 

[skypilot]

Im not an African Hunter but I own a .375 H&H and I am extremely pleased with it!

Also Im not jacking a thread or picking a fight on porting or muzzle brakes, just something to consider before you buy if it did have a muzzle brake.

Will African PHs guide hunters on dangerous game if the hunter has a ported or braked barrel?

 

[Ardent]

Im a pilot too, based at CYRO.

Not to go off topic, but what kind of flying do you do out of Rockcliffe? I didn't realise there was much for commercial operators there, especially one that goes arctic & western, interesting.

Back to the subject at hand, just don't buy a gun too far beyond your experience level, a tragically common mistake in those eyeing Africa, and plan to buy as much in ammunition (or better yet, handload) as the cost of your rifle for practice if eyeing a $1,000 budget. I wouldn't get too worried about cost of rifle and ammunition, as last I read Mozambique's trophy fee for a Cape Buffalo bull is about $4,000US. You'll also be paying a daily rate to the PH, your airfare, and even on a buddy deal it's a $10,000 trip. A good deal, in dangerous game hunting, but scrimping on the rifle and practice doesn't make sense when you eye the big picture.

You do arctic flying I presume ( Polar Bear)? A good friend and my former boss flies supplying hunt camps in the arctic, and another acquaintance does the same, and hunted Buffalo in the same place I did. Both are on here and may chime in.

Hope it comes together for you, Africa's like nothing else, have fun!

 

[oddione]

I actually agree 100% despite my endorsement of a .375 Ruger. I wouldn't pack a .375 Ruger to Africa for just this reason, have packed my .375 H&H accross a couple times with zero ammo anxieties.



I removed your bold text, an annoying and self important habit in forum etiquette. No, I'm a pilot, and my first time over to Africa came as a sideways result of that. You posses a particularly strong variety of... Something. When a guy from Ottawa states he wants a rifle for Polar Bear and Grizzly guiding/defense, and Cape Buffalo hunting it piques one's curiousity.

You don't work for Buffalo Airways by any chance?

On a side note, I am not a commercial pilot, just private. Single piston, night rating, floats, tail dragger and skis.

As for the trophy fee... well lets just say I know someone at the Embassy of Mozambique who owes ME a favor

Refer to post # 29 for an update and more details.

 

[jeff270]

Seamac has a .375 Ruger Alaskan for sale in the EE

According to Craig Boddington Mozamique dosent have a minimum for buff, one of his pals used a .256 Manlicher.
I think the .375 Ruger Alaskan is just what the doctor ordered.

 

[Ardent]

You don't work for Buffalo Airways by any chance?

On a side note, I am not a commercial pilot, just private. Single piston, night rating, floats, tail dragger and skis.

As for the trophy fee... well lets just say I know someone at the Embassy of Mozambique who owes ME a favor

Refer to post # 29 for an update and more details.

Ah, I envisioned something else, no I'm a helicopter pilot. Good luck and be cautious, it might not be easy to explain to the game rangers you have a free trophy fee, I'd be suspect somebody in an embassy could arrange such a thing. Just caught your update in post 1, gotcha, makes sense. An Alaskan might fit your bill well then, as it's small.

 

[Ardent]

Ah, I envisioned something else, no I'm a helicopter pilot. Good luck and be cautious, it might not be easy to explain to the game rangers you have a free trophy fee, I'd be suspect somebody in an embassy could arrange such a thing. Just caught your update in post 1, gotcha, makes sense. An Alaskan might fit your bill well then, as it's small.

I should add, if you have no loaner rifle available in Mozambique, and also are new to medium bores and up, be cautious with the Alaskan. If your ammo doesn't arrive (must be packed separately), you'll straight up not be able to hunt. Missing luggage happens a lot on the way to Africa especially the small luggage pieces like ammo, you'll likely be going through three different borders/customs to get there, not including leaving Canada, and at least three separate flights. .375 H&H will be readily available locally of course.

Recoil is another factor with the Alaskan. Some shooters very experienced and comfortable with the standard magnums and even medium bores in larger rifles, want no part of the Alaskan for sake of the recoil. I think it's a slick little medium bore carbine, but likely sharp on recoil, with impossible to source ammunition. So on further contemplation, I'd suggest hunting for the BRNO 602 geologist mention, and shortening the barrel if it suit your tastes. I sold one to looch for about $700 if I remember correctly, they can be had affordably. Any changes in the plans for practice? My .375 brass lasts five loadings no problem, I'd buy a hundred brass, 500 Hornady cup and cores, and practice and learn since you handload.

And, going to your first post update, make sure you're in shape before you head over! You'll be walking a lot longer, and a lot further than you likely imagine, and she's damn hot in Nyati country. Good hunting.

 

[oddione]

I should add, if you have no loaner rifle available in Mozambique, and also are new to medium bores and up, be cautious with the Alaskan. If your ammo doesn't arrive (must be packed separately), you'll straight up not be able to hunt. Missing luggage happens a lot on the way to Africa especially the small luggage pieces like ammo, you'll likely be going through three different borders/customs to get there, not including leaving Canada, and at least three separate flights. .375 H&H will be readily available locally of course.

Recoil is another factor with the Alaskan. Some shooters very experienced and comfortable with the standard magnums and even medium bores in larger rifles, want no part of the Alaskan for sake of the recoil. I think it's a slick little medium bore carbine, but likely sharp on recoil, with impossible to source ammunition. So on further contemplation, I'd suggest hunting for the BRNO 602 geologist mention, and shortening the barrel if it suit your tastes. I sold one to looch for about $700 if I remember correctly, they can be had affordably. Any changes in the plans for practice? My .375 brass lasts five loadings no problem, I'd buy a hundred brass, 500 Hornady cup and cores, and practice and learn since you handload.

And, going to your first post update, make sure you're in shape before you head over! You'll be walking a lot longer, and a lot further than you likely imagine, and she's damn hot in Nyati country. Good hunting.

Thanks for the advice!

I am leaning towards .375H&H either ruger falling block or BRNO 602. What I'd REALLY like is a double rifle in .458 win mag with iron sights only based on the youtube videos of close calls I have seen.

If you are ever at CYRO PM me, we can go out to Connaught Ranges.

 

[hoytcanon]

Thanks for the advice!

I am leaning towards .375H&H either ruger falling block or BRNO 602. What I'd REALLY like is a double rifle in .458 win mag with iron sights only based on the youtube videos of close calls I have seen.

If you are ever at CYRO PM me, we can go out to Connaught Ranges.

Your budget is $1000 - $1500... you can forget the double rifle in .458 or any other caliber for that matter... a double will run considerably more than that... at least of any that I am aware of.

 

[tjhaile]

I am leaning towards .375H&H either ruger falling block or BRNO 602. What I'd REALLY like is a double rifle in .458 win mag with iron sights only based on the youtube videos of close calls I have seen.

I would pick the bolt action over a single shot for dangerous game. This is one application where you may really need a second shot fast.

As for the double, if you're going to dream, pick a rimmed cartridge more suited to double rifles, like the .450 or .470 Nitro Express.