Ah hahah, helps to read more of the thread (or post..) I guess!
Wolverine Sale Pictures Thread
- Thread starter buffdog
- Start date
As for DOM:
If the gun is marked Loewe, it was made before 1896. After that date, Loewe became DWM after a merger with Mauser.
Colin Webster wrote a book with all this info in it, including serial tables, but alas, I don;t have a copy.
Stolen from another forum:
1901 was the last year they were made. The Peruvian rifles were taken out of manufacturing ranges assigned to the Argentine order because Peru's small order of only 30,000 rifles didn't merit a separate production run.
If the gun is marked Loewe, it was made before 1896. After that date, Loewe became DWM after a merger with Mauser.
Colin Webster wrote a book with all this info in it, including serial tables, but alas, I don;t have a copy.
Stolen from another forum:
1901 was the last year they were made. The Peruvian rifles were taken out of manufacturing ranges assigned to the Argentine order because Peru's small order of only 30,000 rifles didn't merit a separate production run.
Just found another forum post on Jouster where someone typed out the info from Webster's book:
Do not apply the carbine info to peruvian carbines - they are all cut-down rifles. The carbines referred to above are the purpose-made Argentinian carbines that were made that way from new.
Do not apply the carbine info to peruvian carbines - they are all cut-down rifles. The carbines referred to above are the purpose-made Argentinian carbines that were made that way from new.
I believe it's NOT an 1891 Argentine, but rather a Peruvian M1891 with intact crest. 30,000 manufactured according to Ball 4th Ed. Peru upgraded them all in 1912 to fire the 7.65x53JS spritzer round and installed Lange-Vizier sights, which is what made me suspect the mis-ID.
All Peruvian 1891's are marked on the side-wall as "Mauser Modelo Argentino 1891", hence the easy mistake. Happy to have noticed this and snagged itThe Argentine version is FAR more common - 180,000 mfgrd. Also, it's rare to see any pre-ww1 peruvian rifle with the crest intact.
i noticed those 2 peruvians (rifle and carbine). tradeex also had one a while back.
i should post pics sometime of my 1909 with crest and "mauser original" markings.
The 1909's were very nice (the Peruvian ones). We have a nice example posted over at MSC in the MKL.
w w w .milsurps.com/content.php?r=270-1909-Peruvian-Infantry-Rifle-(Mfg-by-Mauser-Werke-A.G.-Oberndorf-a-N.)
They are basically identical to a WW1 era Gew98, but marked differently and chambered in 7.65 argie.
- Location
- Leduc County, Alberta
I guess my naming of my Peruvian 1891 as an, "M91", is kind of misleading...
Claven2 said:
Hey thanks Claven!!
My Peruvian Full Length 1891 was made in 1900! It is in the "U" block 9000 series.
Thanks for the info! I love CGN!
My modest contribution:
1940 tula almost relic condition, non refurb ejector rod is strangely short, cylinder looks like it was either really badly made or somebody tried to bore it out for another cartridge
Full length verguiro in original caliber. Condition is typically rusty except for the bore which is VG. Neither the action or barrel are serialed, just an assembly # on the underside. Have never seem that before.
1940 tula almost relic condition, non refurb ejector rod is strangely short, cylinder looks like it was either really badly made or somebody tried to bore it out for another cartridge
Full length verguiro in original caliber. Condition is typically rusty except for the bore which is VG. Neither the action or barrel are serialed, just an assembly # on the underside. Have never seem that before.
Most of the rifles in the Wolverine sale look to have a light dusting of surface rust on them here and there from what I can tell. Likely the former owner kept them in a damp location like a basement with less than perfect dehumidification.
The bright side is that they will likely clean up dramatically with minimal steel wool treatment.
The bright side is that they will likely clean up dramatically with minimal steel wool treatment.
Mr Wolverine
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoba. Canada
Do not be in a hurry to use the steel wool! Allow to soak in oil for weeks and just scratch at the rust with your thumb nail, use an old tooth brush, a well used nylon pot cleaning pad works wel, but will take bluing off. Sadly a lot of the rust is recent, guns were kept dry, that is a lesson for all of us, a little oil is a must.
x2 on bronze wool.
I think it depends on the degree and type of rust. If it's to the point the blueing under it is compromised over a wider area (general corrosion), then abrasive wool should be used locally. If you have localized surface rust with original finish peeking through, then yes, use something tamer like bronze wool or a stiff brush with solvent.
If you have rust crusties (i.e. crusted or flaked rust proud of the surface, usually in a small area), I flatten the mouth of a brass shell to use as a scraper and scrape it off until you see the pitting underneath, then I spot-treat with fine wool soaked in oil.
I've restored a PILE of guns, so I agree it's fair to say that each rust situation needs to be assessed independently and approached accordingly.
If you have rust crusties (i.e. crusted or flaked rust proud of the surface, usually in a small area), I flatten the mouth of a brass shell to use as a scraper and scrape it off until you see the pitting underneath, then I spot-treat with fine wool soaked in oil.
I've restored a PILE of guns, so I agree it's fair to say that each rust situation needs to be assessed independently and approached accordingly.
I know people who purposefully leave cosmolene on their collector guns for this reason. I'm not a fan though, I like to fondle!
My rifles are stored in the basement, but I have a computer-controlled climate control system and monitor that gun room in particular, I also keep that room 2 degrees colder than the rest of the house. Colder air is drier air.
At least once a year, every gun comes out of storage for a light rub down with a ballistol-soaked rag. Never had storage rust develop yet
I have had a great deal of good luck with EXTRA-FINE steel wool.
FINE is about the limit on coarseness, SUPERFINE turns to dust as soon as you try to use it.
It is actually IRON rather than steel and not quite as hard as some would fear.
Hard and fast rule for using it: steel-wool first, wipe dry, THEN oil. Never allow the Rust dust and the Oil to mix: together, they create JEWELLER'S ROUGE and there is nothing that will scrub away original blue quicker!
Learned that one the hard way!
.
FINE is about the limit on coarseness, SUPERFINE turns to dust as soon as you try to use it.
It is actually IRON rather than steel and not quite as hard as some would fear.
Hard and fast rule for using it: steel-wool first, wipe dry, THEN oil. Never allow the Rust dust and the Oil to mix: together, they create JEWELLER'S ROUGE and there is nothing that will scrub away original blue quicker!
Learned that one the hard way!
.
Claven - I was the one who picked up #78 - the "agentine" 91 carbine. It has no crest on the receiver. It does have the "shaking hands" emblem on the bolt shroud and it looks like on the front band and maybe on the side of the receiver.
i will get some pics up soon.
It does look like a cut down rifle. It has the modified sights.
i will get some pics up soon.
It does look like a cut down rifle. It has the modified sights.
If it has the "roller coaster" sights, then it's actually Peruvian and was modified to a carbine some time between 1912 and 1930. It would have started life as a rifle.
The "shaking hands" is a factory acceptance mark the Argentinian inspectors would have applied to the rifle to show the receiver was in-spec at the factory in Berlin. The Peruvian rifles were part of the same manufacturing batch as the Argentinian rifles, so they all have argentinian acceptance stamps and are rolled stamped as "Modelo Argentino" rifles because they were the same model as the ones the argentinians bought and that's what Loewe (or later DWM) called this export model.
These peruvian guns were not purposefully scrubbed, but they were lightly stamped from the factory and when they were converted to the vizier sights and either re-chambered or re-barrelled to the spritzer round in 1912 (depending on if the bore was nice or not), the receivers were also polished to remove rust pitting, nicks, dings, etc. as many of these rifles had seen 20 years of use. This invariably erased or nearly erased the crests.
Some rifles, like the one I bought, must have seen minimal use at the time of conversion and therefore the crests weren't obliterated because the receiver probably didn't have enough wear to be worth refinishing it.
The "shaking hands" is a factory acceptance mark the Argentinian inspectors would have applied to the rifle to show the receiver was in-spec at the factory in Berlin. The Peruvian rifles were part of the same manufacturing batch as the Argentinian rifles, so they all have argentinian acceptance stamps and are rolled stamped as "Modelo Argentino" rifles because they were the same model as the ones the argentinians bought and that's what Loewe (or later DWM) called this export model.
These peruvian guns were not purposefully scrubbed, but they were lightly stamped from the factory and when they were converted to the vizier sights and either re-chambered or re-barrelled to the spritzer round in 1912 (depending on if the bore was nice or not), the receivers were also polished to remove rust pitting, nicks, dings, etc. as many of these rifles had seen 20 years of use. This invariably erased or nearly erased the crests.
Some rifles, like the one I bought, must have seen minimal use at the time of conversion and therefore the crests weren't obliterated because the receiver probably didn't have enough wear to be worth refinishing it.
I actually thought it may be Peruvian when I bought it by looking at #77's crest. I had hoped mine had the crest, but it is a nice carbine that is very good shape and well worth it to me.
I also picked up the jap 38 carbine and 44 carbine.
I was just cleaning the dried cosmo from the 38 (I prefer that) and found an ancient patch stock in the slot end where the rod would have gone. I was picking out this old rotten patch wondering if it was a bug nest LOL
Also found old wide bladed grass pieces between the bbl and stock. Nice to find the original red tint to the finish inside the bands and the bbl chanels.
I will post pics soon - if anyone knows where to get a mid band and a bayonet assembly for the early (I am figuring bsed on eyeballing the screw spacing on the stock) 44 carbine - open to help..... I also know they are spendy.
Again, i like them both.
I also picked up the jap 38 carbine and 44 carbine.
I was just cleaning the dried cosmo from the 38 (I prefer that) and found an ancient patch stock in the slot end where the rod would have gone. I was picking out this old rotten patch wondering if it was a bug nest LOL
Also found old wide bladed grass pieces between the bbl and stock. Nice to find the original red tint to the finish inside the bands and the bbl chanels.
I will post pics soon - if anyone knows where to get a mid band and a bayonet assembly for the early (I am figuring bsed on eyeballing the screw spacing on the stock) 44 carbine - open to help..... I also know they are spendy.
Again, i like them both.
My modest contribution:
1940 tula almost relic condition, non refurb ejector rod is strangely short, cylinder looks like it was either really badly made or somebody tried to bore it out for another cartridge
Full length verguiro in original caliber. Condition is typically rusty except for the bore which is VG. Neither the action or barrel are serialed, just an assembly # on the underside. Have never seem that before.
Nice score on the DMGLM-marked Vergueiro! FWIW I believe mine is serial numbered on the receiver.
