Never owned an AK, have you? Im just going by the military documentaries i have watched. Im no expert, just giving my opinion from what i have read and seen.
I love 1911's but i found this very interesting.
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Never owned an AK, have you? Im just going by the military documentaries i have watched. Im no expert, just giving my opinion from what i have read and seen.
The majority of my AK time has been with Norinco Mak-90s. They were good rifles.
I don't know what "military documentaries" you're referring to but your information is outdated by decades, frankly. To quote a foreign weapons platform trainer I know from the USMC (i.e. an AK specialist) "The reliability of the AK is overstated to the same degree its accuracy is understated."
I don't know what "military documentaries" you're referring to but your information is outdated by decades, frankly. To quote a foreign weapons platform trainer I know from the USMC (i.e. an AK specialist) "The reliability of the AK is overstated to the same degree its accuracy is understated."
ARs are more accurate, my argument was towards reliability and durability, and nothing you said has changed my mind from what i have both read and seen.
You can think that, but you'd be wrong.
Very little to do with design, and very much to do with the design being produced out of spec. Use of dirty powder, weak brass, with unchromed bores, issued without cleaning kits and marketing the rifle to troops as self-cleaning in a wet climate and that is what you get. Thinking that because a design can go months and thousands of rounds without cleaning in such an environment and still be reliable is some kind of testament to the superiority of design is quite frankly ridiculous, and completely out of touch with reality. The AR15 wouldn't have even got on the radar if it wasn't so well liked by MAC-V in the early 60s.
There are plenty of real, quantifiable benefits to both the AR15 platform and direct impingement- lighter, less reciprocating mass, in line recoil, better sight radius, ergonomics- the list goes on and there is a reason Special Forces units the world over still use AR15s even though AK-pattern rifles have been available to them for decades.
If you think AKs are so infallable, go read about the headache that can be had finding a reliable WASR in the states. Build a gun out of spec and it WILL be unreliable.
Similar case with 1911s.. You take a firearm that was designed as a service handgun to fire FMJ then start re-engineering it to both fill a psuedo-competition niche as well as fire hollowpoints, and you can't be surprised when reliability suffers.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1192286025577999101
Around 25:00 you'll see Bougainville Revolutionary Army fighter cleaning an M16A2 with coconut milk.
well we can agree at the "time" the ak was a superior model. Maybe the quality of AR's are such now that the point is mute, but i dunno.
[youtube]jPbF0kKyc2c[/youtube]
maybe "high maintenance" isn't the best choice of words......more like "user knowledge"
it's easier for the non gun enthusiast or first time gun user to pick up a glock and use it. there's no grip safety, no manual safety, the slide stop is so small most people just pull the slide back to release the slide. learning to do this one action repeatedly makes the gun simple to use.
add to the fact the trigger pull is the same each time unlike a lot of double action first shot/single action second shot semi autos out there
the 1911 has a grip safety, a thumb safety, a slide stop within reach. some people use thier weak hand to drop the slide when going into the two hand hold, some people pull the slide back like the glock, some people use thier strong hand thumb to release the slide....
most unreliable 1911's I've seen have been reliable 1911's that someone butchered with a dremel or added all kinds of aftermarket parts out of spec or thought everything is just a drop in part
there's too many aftermarket gadgets for the 1911 and people love to customize them. there's not a lot of aftermarket gadgets for glocks so people don't mess with them as much
most people that own glocks use only glock mags unlike 1911's
most people don't know what a controlled feed is or why the original USGI 1911 mags have tapered feed lips.
if you try feed a 1911 anything other than what it was designed for, don't complain when your truncated cone, semi waddcutter, or grand canyon sized hollow point bullets don't feed
same as people that ignore the glock manual and use lead bullets in thier glock
it's easier for the non gun enthusiast or first time gun user to pick up a glock and use it. there's no grip safety, no manual safety, the slide stop is so small most people just pull the slide back to release the slide. learning to do this one action repeatedly makes the gun simple to use.
add to the fact the trigger pull is the same each time unlike a lot of double action first shot/single action second shot semi autos out there
the 1911 has a grip safety, a thumb safety, a slide stop within reach. some people use thier weak hand to drop the slide when going into the two hand hold, some people pull the slide back like the glock, some people use thier strong hand thumb to release the slide....
most unreliable 1911's I've seen have been reliable 1911's that someone butchered with a dremel or added all kinds of aftermarket parts out of spec or thought everything is just a drop in part
there's too many aftermarket gadgets for the 1911 and people love to customize them. there's not a lot of aftermarket gadgets for glocks so people don't mess with them as much
most people that own glocks use only glock mags unlike 1911's
most people don't know what a controlled feed is or why the original USGI 1911 mags have tapered feed lips.
if you try feed a 1911 anything other than what it was designed for, don't complain when your truncated cone, semi waddcutter, or grand canyon sized hollow point bullets don't feed
same as people that ignore the glock manual and use lead bullets in thier glock
If Glocks were invented 100 years ago and the technology existed to manufacture them, would 1911's exist today?
I watched a few tear down and re-assemblies on YT and decided to buy Glocks. Based on how coarse handgun sights are, I doubt a human is able to shoot 1.5" groups. Maybe using a ransom rest...
I watched a few tear down and re-assemblies on YT and decided to buy Glocks. Based on how coarse handgun sights are, I doubt a human is able to shoot 1.5" groups. Maybe using a ransom rest...
I think there is very little doubt that the AK was absolutely more reliable than the M16. This is mainly due to the AK's loose tolerances. You can blame the M16's reliability issues on whatever you'd like but to dispute the AK's legendary reliability is foolish. What cleaning kits were the AK's issued with? Would you view having to constantly clean your weapon during firefights as a good thing?
Somehow this thread went from a pistol discussion to an AK vs AR discussion. Theres another video by the same Jaeger dude that covers this topic. Someone should post it up in the right forum so i can read more about this pistol debate. Anybody know which 3 1911 manufacuturers he might have been talking about in the video??
No, I would not, and if you had to clean ARs during firefights that would be an issue as well. Since you don't, there is no problem.
This thread is getting stupid...we have a bunch of people who don't know anything about the AR or AK and have just "seen" or "heard" things from the Vietnam era arguing that the reliability of the 1911 relative to the Glock is proven by something they heard third hand about a gun built fifty years ago.
Actually, forget the modifier "getting". This thread has gotten stupid.
I would suggest that everyone here without specific data and experience with both the AK and AR platforms stop talking about ARs and AKs in a thread that is ostensibly about 1911s, and instead focus on delivering any data you actually have, if any, that is germane to the actual topic here.
If there is someone here who actually has DATA about ARs and AKs that is useful, I'd love to see it included but gun shop rumours are a ####ing waste of everyone's time.
This thread is getting stupid...we have a bunch of people who don't know anything about the AR or AK and have just "seen" or "heard" things from the Vietnam era arguing that the reliability of the 1911 relative to the Glock is proven by something they heard third hand about a gun built fifty years ago.
Actually, forget the modifier "getting". This thread has gotten stupid.
I would suggest that everyone here without specific data and experience with both the AK and AR platforms stop talking about ARs and AKs in a thread that is ostensibly about 1911s, and instead focus on delivering any data you actually have, if any, that is germane to the actual topic here.
If there is someone here who actually has DATA about ARs and AKs that is useful, I'd love to see it included but gun shop rumours are a ####ing waste of everyone's time.
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[youtube]g6dccMbsmrA[/youtube]
doesn't really matter, its just ones guys personal opinion. Been racing handguns for the last 13 yrs, I've seen every make of gun jam, even glocks
. Take care of your gun, learn how to use it, and it will run
My guess is 3 of the following:
Wilson Combat
Nighthawk Custom
Les Baer
Ed Brown
These are the "Big 4" of 1911s. I think also a good chance he had Colt or Springfield in mind. They offer custom work but their production 1911s seem to be the ones that people rarely say negative things about.
I'm thinking Wilson Combat, Les Baer, and Ed Brown.
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You can throw Dan Wesson in with those.
doesn't really matter, its just ones guys personal opinion. Been racing handguns for the last 13 yrs, I've seen every make of gun jam, even glocks
What do you mean it doesn't matter? I don't care if you care, I was curious so I asked a question.
Cool cool, thanks
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This.
I assume you will be taking your own advice here. As AKs are not widely available in Canada, i doubt you have any first hand experience with them either to be making the assumptions your making. Other then gun shop rumors and stuff you read on the internet.
I have been shooting a lot longer than AKs have been banned, and I spend a lot of shooting time outside of Canada, so actually I have quite a bit of experience with the AK platform.
If you have questions about it, feel free to ask, although obviously another thread would be appropriate since that is not the topic of either this thread or this subforum.
But it would definitely be worth your while to learn about the AK if you intend to use it as an argument for a different gun...if you think that's something worth doing in the first place.
If you have questions about it, feel free to ask, although obviously another thread would be appropriate since that is not the topic of either this thread or this subforum.
But it would definitely be worth your while to learn about the AK if you intend to use it as an argument for a different gun...if you think that's something worth doing in the first place.
