Best you've ever done with your M14 pattern rifle for consistent accuracy

[carbonrod]

This sums it up pretty well..........I love the M14 and believe it is a great rifle.......a Battle rifle........They can be made to be very accurate, but it is not very cost effective.........

+1. Even once they are well tuned instruments, the maintenance is pretty high to keep them there.

Don't get me wrong, I have a tweaked 14 to hunt with when it snows, or is too humid to use a scope.

 

[redshooter]

I think a MOA challenge should be started
Rules: rifle must be an M14/M1A type. All makes models, optics and accessories allowed.
Video footage mandatory
1 clean target down range @ 100 for each 5 shot group.

Camera should be on and rolling continuously from target placement to target removal. Target should be held visible as it is walked directly into close up view of the camera.

I'm up for the challenge, Rugerman and I have talked about this very topic and concluded it would be the only way to satisfy the "internet".
Whaddya think?

This should be interesting. As soon as I get my glass on and finish tuning my load I'll give it a go.

 

[big bear]

now I think I see the problem, my claim was mistook!

By consistent , I mean when I take it out to shoot I get these kind of groups. I take 5 or 6 rifles to the range when I shoot because it's an hour drive and most of a day off's activity. I work on loads for my pet lever rifles, try out cast bullet loads in them and some old milsurps and shoot my Norc. I'll shoot 2 or 3 strings with the Norc as a break from the more serious load testing then set it aside for 20-30 minutes. Next target change break, I'll put up another set of targets and do it again. I am not claiming I could shoot string after string of itty bitty groups with that rifle over a prolonged course of fire(as in a match), I'm just shocked and pleased that I can produce lots of groups like that with the rifle, range trip after range trip. The tune up the Dr. did on this one two winters ago did definately improve it.My Garands in 30'06 never ever produce groups like that. That a $400 battle rifle can shoot like that , ever, gobsmacks me. You all with your improved rifles can relax now, I'm sure you'd beat me every time in a match.I'm actually more impressed with my 2" groups with my old Win71,on a good day, that's 3 shots in 2", the other 2 somewhere in the vicinity My shooting goals are more toward hunting than match shooting anymore. A rifle that will produce groups like these leads to great confidence in the rifle in a hunting situation where 1 shot groups are the ideal situation.

 

[Ardent]

I think a MOA challenge should be started
Rules: rifle must be an M14/M1A type. All makes models, optics and accessories allowed.
Video footage mandatory
1 clean target down range @ 100 for each 5 shot group.

Camera should be on and rolling continuously from target placement to target removal. Target should be held visible as it is walked directly into close up view of the camera.

I'm up for the challenge, Rugerman and I have talked about this very topic and concluded it would be the only way to satisfy the "internet".
Whaddya think?

Brilliant, money where your mouth is stuff, all too rare online I'm impressed with the idea. There ought to be a sigline badge.

 

[redshooter]

Brilliant, money where your mouth is stuff, all too rare online I'm impressed with the idea. There ought to be a sigline badge.

Maynard had been doing something like this in Precision Rifles. He's trying to get guys out to see how things are done in F, F/TR, etc. The draw is he gets you out on an ORA practice day at Cedar Springs Rifle Range. The challenge is 10 shots at 300 m 1 MOA. You get 5 cracks at it, you do it he pays for you day at the range. You don't you pay $45. Either way you get to meet some of the guys on the forum and you also get to shoot at a really nice range.

Money where your mouth is and get some new poeple out to try how things are done in the ORA.

 

[carbonrod]

Maynard had been doing something like this in Precision Rifles. He's trying to get guys out to see how things are done in F, F/TR, etc. The draw is he gets you out on an ORA practice day at Cedar Springs Rifle Range. The challenge is 10 shots at 300 m 1 MOA. You get 5 cracks at it, you do it he pays for you day at the range. You don't you pay $45. Either way you get to meet some of the guys on the forum and you also get to shoot at a really nice range.

Money where your mouth is and get some new poeple out to try how things are done in the ORA.

I would love to see this sort of a thing at other PRAs.

 

[Sluggo_m14]

Where will the videos be posted?
I took a couple of rounds this morning. below are the results from 100 yds, using MFS 145gr ammo, with a slight 5'oclock wind~. Stock iron sights from a rest. Stock M305. I would try again with a better set up than I had this morning.The Target is a poor choice for the irons.

[/IMG]
I would have shot more but-The bolt jammed in the back of the receiver and needed attention.

 

[redshooter]

Put video on you tube and put a link here.

I'm not sure how these groups would be if I had glass but since I'm older irons are hard to be consistant with. I really believe this rifle will shoot under 2 MOA maybe around 1 MOA with a good load tuned to the rifle. I think the guys who shoot factory out of a rifle they spent a fair bit of coin on are always going to be dissapointed. Handloading is the most important thing you can do to improve accuracy, period.

10 shots 155 A-Max 42.6 gr. IMR 4895 COL 2.80" IVI Brass 100 yds

10 shots 175 Sierra Match Kings 40.4 gr. IMR 4895 COL 2.80" IVI Brass 100 yds

These loads are not finished. A 3-9X40mm Burris scope will end up on it eventually. I think under 1.5 MOA is very likely.

When I get glass on I'll switch to 5 round groups. I shoot 10 now to make up for the inconsistancies from the irons.

 

[Gatehouse]

How much do you need to invest in these rifles to make them shoot almost as well as just about any off the shelf bolt action .308?

 

[Sluggo_m14]

Redshooter: Nice What is your rifle-Norinco? -Have you done anything to the rifle at all?
Do you think that investment in reloading gear would improve the accuracy more than investments in the hardware?

 

[Brutus]

How much do you need to invest in these rifles to make them shoot almost as well as just about any off the shelf bolt action .308?

No offence intended for anyone here, and I have a snug headspace Polytech M-14S that has a 'history' of good performance at medium ranges. (300-600 yards) After much thought, it stays as it is in factory form, except for a surplus GI stock. I own a Remington 700 Varmint & a Wichita 1375 actioned rifle with a Krieger barrel for longer range tasks.

ymmv

 

[Hotwheels81]

NEA oprod spring guide

Promag arms #18 copy

NEA Extended mag release

About $0.25 worth of quick steel in the front of the stock to get rid of the loose stock rattle

Not quite $650 into mine sans scope and a couple extra mags...

Shooting 147gr MFS I can make the first 3 rounds touch, the next 2 open it up an inch or two...

Federal blue box 150gr it's a 1.5MOA rifle...

So pretty much I bought a slightly over priced semi auto equivalent of the savage Axis... Or the non restricted equivalent of a DPMS Panther... Or the cheaper (lighter) red headed step child of the XCR-M...

Either way I look at it I have a perfectly acceptable deer rifle... Even out of the box it would of got the job done out to a couple hundred yards.

 

[Ardent]

How much do you need to invest in these rifles to make them shoot almost as well as just about any off the shelf bolt action .308?

Even just a Ruger Gunsite will embarrass nearly any M14 unfortunately and with a higher magazine capacity and lighter weight to boot. I still want that Springfield though.

 

[Brutus]

Is it just me or this proposed firing test of 100 yards/meters seems a tad too close?

Think long ranges maybe?

 

[Sluggo_m14]

Is it just me or this proposed firing test of 100 yards/meters seems a tad too close?

Think long ranges maybe?

I thought it was going to be a test of the rifle/platform, I don't have alot of places I can shoot more than 100m. I don't think I could use the irons much farther and still test the platform reliably. The 100 yd/m should adequately indicate the rifles repeatability?

 

[redshooter]

Redshooter: Nice What is your rifle-Norinco? -Have you done anything to the rifle at all?
Do you think that investment in reloading gear would improve the accuracy more than investments in the hardware?

It's a Norinco M-305 I just picked up a few weeks ago so it's a newer import if it makes a difference. I bought a heavier op rod spring off Hungry as I'm shooting 175 gr. bullets. I figure it's cheap insurance. Other than that and a coat of flat green Krylon on the stock that's all that has been done.

I believe reloading is the single most important thing you can do to improve accuracy. You can spend a fortune and have a rifle that shoots like crap with factory ammo. If no one has a load your rifle likes your screwed unless you make it yourself. Here's an example, I bought a Tikka Varmint in .222 Rem a few years back. I tried several different factory loads and had very dissapointing results. I started hand loading 55 gr bullets that I had left over from my .223's, again garbage. In my travels I stopped into a little shop and he had a deal on these Sierra 40 gr. HP (#1385). I took a gamble on his suggestion and bought two hundred. The first load I picked was the hunting load in the Sierra manual, 26.3 gr. of W-748. It was magic, 1/4" groups, everyone under 1/2". Up till then the best I'd seen was 1" in a rifle and cartridge well known for its accuracy. Right load, magic, wrong load, steaming pile of feces.

I think for the money the Hornady A-Max is the right bullet for this rifle. I suspect the best overall will turn out to be one of the other Palma bullets or one in the 175 gr. range. I'm really looking forward to trying Berger's 155.5. Once I get a load I'm happy with I'll start loading Sierra or Hornady 150 gr. FMJBT for practice.

 

[redshooter]

Is it just me or this proposed firing test of 100 yards/meters seems a tad too close?

Think long ranges maybe?

100 is fine to test outright accuracy of the rifle. Going further is a test of the load and shooter. Under perfect conditions if the rifle can shoot 1 MOA at 100 it should do it at 1000.

If the goal is to test the shooter then I agree. I think 300 yds would be a good number. I think we could all agree a different standard for scoped or irons shooters would be in order.

 

[liberty]

100 is fine to test outright accuracy of the rifle. Going further is a test of the load and shooter. Under perfect conditions if the rifle can shoot 1 MOA at 100 it should do it at 1000.

If the goal is to test the shooter then I agree. I think 300 yds would be a good number. I think we could all agree a different standard for scoped or irons shooters would be in order.

Not the case...

 

[redshooter]

Not the case...

Back that up.

Note perfect conditions. If your refering to how some bullets loose stability at sound barrier etc. that's is a different situation. In that case it's the bullet not the rifle.

Unless your refering to a rifle that doesn't have the power to get out there in the first place. Then the only flaw is the cartridge.

 

[liberty]

The spread across all your loads would have to be very low to maintain moa, so its just not a given.

If your gun is only capable of 1moa at 100, I doubt it would do same at 1000 from my experience.