Quick SL8 vs Swiss arms question
- Thread starter nelly250
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Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
A folding buttstock is the number one reason I like the Swiss Arms, and I'm exactly the opposite of mall ninja. My rifles travel in everything from trucks to planes to helicopters, frequently, and I travel with a rifle in a duffle bag. You simply cannot take an SL8 to where I go with a rifle, through the hotels, rental trucks, aircraft. A Swiss Arms is very small folded and actually goes places, unlike an SL8- if you want to talk mall ninja folding stocks aren't it.
Recoil? 
These are heavy .223's!!A range queen SL8 is mall ninja. A folding carbine you can bring with you without a massive rifle case is the absolute opposite.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
First-off, I was merely correcting the original post which indicated it was a collapsible stock. In reality it's a folding stock (although a collapsible/folding stock is available as an upgrade). I doubt very much that most Swiss Arms owners (or the Swiss military, for that matter) would classify the folding stock as a mall ninja accessory...
Second, any standard (non-flattop) Swiss Arms does not come with any top mounting rail. You need to purchase this separately or you're limited to the iron sights. Since very few Swiss Arms that are imported are the flattop model... And while we're on the subject of iron sights, the ones on the Swiss Arms are welded and not removable. They're a very good set of BUIS, so that can either be a pro or con, but you do need the right optic mount to clear the BUIS.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The advantage of the Swiss Arms with the folding stock is not unique, as you can set the SL8 up for either folding (G36 parts) or folding/collapsible (Hera, Magpul ACR) stocks. The SL8 also makes more use of polymers, so that's either a pro or con depending on how you feel about that.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Back to the OP... you really can't go wrong with either the Swiss Arms or the SL8. I would point out that the main advantage with the SL8 is that a cheap AR mag well adapter will allow you to run standard AR magazines (including the 10-round LAR15's). You can get the NEA lower for the Swiss Arms to do the same, but that's going to easily put you into $4k territory...
And since by the time you add a folding stock to your SL8 you're going to be into the $3k+ range anyway, this might be a good time to point out other options: RobArms XCR, Tavor, FS2000, ACR (the latter two will be harder to source).
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
This should be your sig line...
It's not his fault, he's from Coquitlam.
Ahh yes. Fireball is stirring up crap is he? 
In all fairness he has shot both rifles. He's shot my PE-90 target model and he has a SL8-4 that he did one heck of a job converting the thumb hole stock to something cool.
Here's the PE-90 target in the interest of keeping this thread going.
And here's Fireball's SL8 with home converted stock and AR15 magwell. It's a big improvement over the factory offering. Here's the thread he made on how to convert it. It's stickied on the top of the black and green rifles section.
This is what Fireball brings to the table when he's not thoroughly enjoying being a ####.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=683332
Going to weigh in on my take of these two rifles.
The PE-90 is essentially an updated 1950s rifle. It's pretty much a highly modified and non crapy AK style design although not an AK and not a variant. They added some nice touches like the folding stock (usually hate these but this one is excellent), trigger guard that moves out of the way for gloves, side bolt release, adjustable gas block and wobbly built in bipod. The internals are like a Swiss watch. Exceptional. They are fairly accurate although can't keep up with an accurized AR rifle. The charging handle is still on the right hand side (Thanks Russians for bastardizing the STG44 when the Germans had it right back in 1942). Only the target model offers ease of adding optics. Although the regular ones come with some very nice drum aperture sights. Cost is over the top but they are exceptionally well built. Now comes in 1:7 twist rate but previously was 1:10.
The SL8 is essentially a 1990s rifle. The internals are mostly G36 which also shares components with the UMP. Mostly polymer, has a match type medium bull barrel and a crappy thumb hole stock that will either work for you or it won't. The ergonomic are better than the PE-90 when it doesn't have the thumb hole stock. Although I'm generally not a fan of the way the rail travels over the charging handle. But the charging handle does go either way and sits tucked in when not in use. Very reliable and accuracy seems to be good. Accuracy and triggers of both the SL8 and PE-90 are comparable. The SL8 costs a fortune to upgrade using any HK stuff. If you were to add the built in bipod and the G36 folding stock to make it comparable with the PE-90 then you will be over the cost of the PE-90 for the same features. The only add on that's more cost effective is the AR mag conversion. The PE-90 requires a new lower while the SL8 is a conversion kit.
Now the closest comparison in 21st century rifles would be the FS2000 vs the TAR 21 (Tavor).
Which brings us to an interesting point. A potential project of mine some day is to get another Tavor and have a 20" SS 1:7 5R rifled bull barrel put on it. That with the bottom rail for the handguard to add a bipod I think would be one heck of a fun semi auto target/varmint rifle. Some day. Also the micro Tavor might provide some interesting things.
Other options are the ACR. But availability is pretty much non existent and frankly the firearm still seems to be in a beta stage as they continue to change things.
In all fairness he has shot both rifles. He's shot my PE-90 target model and he has a SL8-4 that he did one heck of a job converting the thumb hole stock to something cool.
Here's the PE-90 target in the interest of keeping this thread going.
And here's Fireball's SL8 with home converted stock and AR15 magwell. It's a big improvement over the factory offering. Here's the thread he made on how to convert it. It's stickied on the top of the black and green rifles section.
This is what Fireball brings to the table when he's not thoroughly enjoying being a ####.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=683332
Going to weigh in on my take of these two rifles.
The PE-90 is essentially an updated 1950s rifle. It's pretty much a highly modified and non crapy AK style design although not an AK and not a variant. They added some nice touches like the folding stock (usually hate these but this one is excellent), trigger guard that moves out of the way for gloves, side bolt release, adjustable gas block and wobbly built in bipod. The internals are like a Swiss watch. Exceptional. They are fairly accurate although can't keep up with an accurized AR rifle. The charging handle is still on the right hand side (Thanks Russians for bastardizing the STG44 when the Germans had it right back in 1942). Only the target model offers ease of adding optics. Although the regular ones come with some very nice drum aperture sights. Cost is over the top but they are exceptionally well built. Now comes in 1:7 twist rate but previously was 1:10.
The SL8 is essentially a 1990s rifle. The internals are mostly G36 which also shares components with the UMP. Mostly polymer, has a match type medium bull barrel and a crappy thumb hole stock that will either work for you or it won't. The ergonomic are better than the PE-90 when it doesn't have the thumb hole stock. Although I'm generally not a fan of the way the rail travels over the charging handle. But the charging handle does go either way and sits tucked in when not in use. Very reliable and accuracy seems to be good. Accuracy and triggers of both the SL8 and PE-90 are comparable. The SL8 costs a fortune to upgrade using any HK stuff. If you were to add the built in bipod and the G36 folding stock to make it comparable with the PE-90 then you will be over the cost of the PE-90 for the same features. The only add on that's more cost effective is the AR mag conversion. The PE-90 requires a new lower while the SL8 is a conversion kit.
Now the closest comparison in 21st century rifles would be the FS2000 vs the TAR 21 (Tavor).
Which brings us to an interesting point. A potential project of mine some day is to get another Tavor and have a 20" SS 1:7 5R rifled bull barrel put on it. That with the bottom rail for the handguard to add a bipod I think would be one heck of a fun semi auto target/varmint rifle. Some day. Also the micro Tavor might provide some interesting things.
Other options are the ACR. But availability is pretty much non existent and frankly the firearm still seems to be in a beta stage as they continue to change things.
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AR mag compatibility is a big plus for me....not sure if i can justify the extra 500ish for the SA NEA lower though. I have considered all the rifles you mentioned, and have pretty much ruled out the bullpups for now. The XCR always catches my attention, but then I get turned off by the reviews (which are probably a bit overblown). It seems like the SA and HK are quality rifles that I find myself flip flopping between. As for the ACR, I have one and it has everything I want in a NR rifle...it just needs some company
Thanks again!AR mag compatibility is a big plus for me....not sure if i can justify the extra 500ish for the SA NEA lower though. I have considered all the rifles you mentioned, and have pretty much ruled out the bullpups for now. The XCR always catches my attention, but then I get turned off by the reviews (which are probably a bit overblown). It seems like the SA and HK are quality rifles that I find myself flip flopping between. As for the ACR, I have one and it has everything I want in a NR rifle...it just needs some company
Why would you rule out a bullpup? Especially if you already have a NR ACR? The ACR will do everything the SL8 and PE-90 will. In terms of ergonomics it's better than both.
The other thing is I would wait to see if the Beretta ARX-160 shows up in a year or so. But again other than some minor features your ACR will do almost everything the ARX will.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
AR mag compatibility is a big plus for me....not sure if i can justify the extra 500ish for the SA NEA lower though. I have considered all the rifles you mentioned, and have pretty much ruled out the bullpups for now. The XCR always catches my attention, but then I get turned off by the reviews (which are probably a bit overblown). It seems like the SA and HK are quality rifles that I find myself flip flopping between. As for the ACR, I have one and it has everything I want in a NR rifle...it just needs some company
Seriously, if you have an ACR stop looking already... (and you can definitely stop looking at the XCR, because you'll be supremely disappointed compared to your ACR). You're also going to find the Swiss Arms a lot heavier, and I don't think you'll like the SL8 as much as the ACR, either. So my only suggestion at this point is a Tavor. Or spend the money on a really nice optic for your ACR instead.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Similar story for me, although it took me three FS2000's to end up with the one I like now. It's non-restricted, so I'm somewhat partial to it.
O
I just purchased a latest build XCR-L. Very impressed with it. The ergonomics are excellent especially if you are right handed. I find the gun to handle well. I used it both in 7.62 and .233 and found the rifle to be good in both calibres.
I really like the new Fast stock, I found it comfortable and capable of a good check weld.
I found the trigger to be an excellent two stage trigger with good feel.
I let some of the naysayers deter me from buying this rifle, however I have so far had no buyers remorse and with minimal proactive maintenance I don't expect to. If you have an ACR already I wouldn't buy an XCR if not I would give it strong consideration.
I just purchased a latest build XCR-L. Very impressed with it. The ergonomics are excellent especially if you are right handed. I find the gun to handle well. I used it both in 7.62 and .233 and found the rifle to be good in both calibres.
I really like the new Fast stock, I found it comfortable and capable of a good check weld.
I found the trigger to be an excellent two stage trigger with good feel.
I let some of the naysayers deter me from buying this rifle, however I have so far had no buyers remorse and with minimal proactive maintenance I don't expect to. If you have an ACR already I wouldn't buy an XCR if not I would give it strong consideration.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yep, and I actually mentioned the XCR. First if you can believe it... (waiting to be struck by a giant blue loctite meteor).
I have a hard time believing there isn't some amount of exaggeration in this statement. I certainly haven't had my XCR long enough to fall in love with it or experience buyers remorse. My experience and impression of it have been good with no negative impressions at this point. However, I only paid $1600 for mine.
I have not used an ACR but it would have to be the perfect rifle to make me feel even a little disappointment in my XCR.
I noticed that and was mildly surprised.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Maybe a little.
But seriously, everyone (including XCR owners) who've ever held my ACR absolutely love it. For $1600 though, it's hard to go wrong (that's even a better deal than a Benelli MR1). Then again I've only got about $1200 into my Tavor at this point, so I can certainly relate...
