Sighting in with different ammo

Necroman99

Necroman99

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
22   0   0
Location
Whitby Ontario
Hey,

This will be my first real post ever. I'm anxiously awaiting arrival of my pal and getting my head straight. I'm planning my first rifle to be. 30-06. Widely lauded as a good all purpose cartridge for hunting. I've already found some people who will introduce me to moose and deer hunts. I started reading other posts about cartridge selection for the different game.

My question is, if choose a particular cartridge for today's moose hunt...say a 180gr nosler partition from federal premium, then I go out and sight in my rifle for it...do I have to use those specific cartridges or will any 180gr bullet do? Any 180gr bullet with similar muzzle velocity?

Do I re-sight in tomorrow when I switch to something different for deer?

What about practicing...If I shoot 100 rounds of cheap ammo to practice, will things change when I go hunting tommorow with premium ammo?

Does this all make sense or am I making an ass of myself?

At the end of the day those partitions I talked about are pricey. How few can I shoot at targets before I'm looking at a moose's boilerroom from 100 yds
 
In most cases the different ammunition will need to be sighted separately even if the same weight and velocity. If you have a good scope you can record the settings for your practice and hunting loads and switch back and forth with confidence.
 
At 100 yards most 180 gr ammo will be close enough to each other that on a target the size of a moose's vitals re-sighting most likely isn't needed.

If you want accuracy on paper or want to stretch the range a bit re-sighting would be must.
 
Choose ammo that works well on deer and larger game. like moose. That way you only need one ammo for hunting. Your federal -Nosler is a good choice for both.

Sight your rifle in at 100yards to be bang on, or maybe 2" high. Then slip the zero rings on the scope so your knobs read zero at both elevation and wind. Now you can easily adjust back to zero for your hunting ammo if you make some minor adjust ment to re-zero for cheap practice ammo.
 
Yes there will be a difference in the different ammo even if the same weight bullets. With my 270 I zeroed with 150gr Federal and then shot a group of Remington 150gr, not only was the poi significantly different, the grouping was also significantly different.
 
Joe549 said:
Yes there will be a difference in the different ammo even if the same weight bullets. With my 270 I zeroed with 150gr Federal and then shot a group of Remington 150gr, not only was the poi significantly different, the grouping was also significantly different.
Click to expand...

How much different?

The op doesn't state what is acceptable to him other than the size of a moose's boiler room at 100 yds.

At 100 yds i have not seen a bullet of the same grain shoot so different that the groups are more than a foot apart.

All depends on what the Op deems acceptable, and how picky he is about his groupings.
 
The 180 grain Nosler Partition is a great moose round, as it has VERY high weight retention, great bullet. It does cost $40+ a box, so sighting in with these shells wouldn't be fun. What I would do is use the 180 grain federal/winchester grey box (whatever is cheapest) to get right on paper and centered, then use one or two partitions to get the EXACT bullet you will be hunting with sighted in best.
 
There isn't a lot of rhyme or reason to POI shift with different ammo. Some rifles are very accomodating and the next will startle you with how far off it is.

Only way to find out is to shoot them.
 
crazydave said:
How much different?

The op doesn't state what is acceptable to him other than the size of a moose's boiler room at 100 yds.

At 100 yds i have not seen a bullet of the same grain shoot so different that the groups are more than a foot apart.

All depends on what the Op deems acceptable, and how picky he is about his groupings.
Click to expand...

Depends on the gun, though. I don't think it's ethical to be taking shots on game unless you know the POI of the ammo you are using. Use cheap stuff to get on paper, then fine tune with the hunting load.
 
Dogleg said:
There isn't a lot of rhyme or reason to POI shift with different ammo. Some rifles are very accomodating and the next will startle you with how far off it is. Only way to find out is to shoot them.
Click to expand...

100% correct, each rifle is a personality unto itself and you cannot predict what a change of ammo will do. You MUST shoot it, period.
Were I you I would sight in with the 180 part federal ammo and go kill all things on God's green earth with it. No need to ever change ammo or sighting as you have everything you need in this load.
 
You should zero for any load you will be using for hunting..... Period.

Some rifles may shoot similar bullet weights to a close zero, but this is random, and can't be trusted. An extreme example was a PH 1200C I owned that would shoot IvI 762NATO ammo a full 4" low and 8" right, away from my 165grain SierraBoatTail hunting load at 100yards!

You really have two choices, and both are great for what you asked.

1. Zero your rifle perfectly for your ammo of choice for hunting, based on game hunted, terminal performance and accuracy in your rifle, and use cheaper range ammo for practice. Unless you are shooting for score on your local range, which you aren't because you are just practicing with a hunting rifle, the zero of the practice ammo doesn't matter, it's all about the groups!!!! If your hunting ammo is zeroed perfectly, and some cheap practice ammo is 3 inches low and 2 inches left don't worry. You are shooting for groups, and this in itself shows you your skill and consistently. This is fine for 100-200 yard work,.....but if 200 yards plus is where you want to practice....

2. Zero for the cheaper practice ammo, say Norinco .308 for 14.00 a box if you had a .308, so you will have the satisfaction of shooting to point of aim during your practice sessions throughout the year, and just re-zero as the hunt is approaching for the premium hunting ammo. Don't worry about group size for practice, or the inherent accuracy from a particular practice load. Find out what the rifle will do at a given range with the cheaper practice ammo, and this is the benchmark you will try to meet in your field positions for practical practice.

I.e. Your hunting ammo shoots MOA in your rifle, but it's 36.00 a box, and the 15.00 practice ammo only will shoot 3 MOA, no problem. 3 MOA is now what you are trying to obtain. When you can lay prone with your sling or unsupported and put 3 rounds into 9 inches on a 300 yard target, you have arrived at excellent marksmanship. Don't get caught-up in group sizes for practice ammo. Know what it will do from a bench rest, and have at her in all four positions for field practice.

No sweat either way.;) All good fun. But always, always zero for a particular load for the hunt to the best of your ability, and stick with it for the whole season, unless you re zero for an ammo change, if your particular load is used up and unavailable during the hunting season.
 
Thank you guys for the excellent replies. I think I get it. I think I kind of had the right kind of idea in my head but it took this thread to coalesce it into something usable.

When I buy my rifle and spend time learning with it I will do this:

Zero for the cheaper practice ammo, say Norinco .308 for 14.00 a box if you had a .308, so you will have the satisfaction of shooting to point of aim during your practice sessions throughout the year, and just re-zero as the hunt is approaching for the premium hunting ammo.
Click to expand...

and if this holds true:

Choose ammo that works well on deer and larger game. like moose. That way you only need one ammo for hunting. Your federal -Nosler is a good choice for both.
Click to expand...

then I never really "touch" my scope again...just check zero periodically with the hunting round before I go out hunting to make sure I haven't knocked the scope and the rest of the time I use this theory for my practice:

If your hunting ammo is zeroed perfectly, and some cheap practice ammo is 3 inches low and 2 inches left don't worry. You are shooting for groups, and this in itself shows you your skill and consistently.
Click to expand...

But you guys have brought up a new question for me. That second quote from above, and some other comments here talk about using the same ammo for deer and moose which I heard said before. My "problem" with that is that as a guy who's never hunted before I rely on external info instead of experience to guide my decisions...and as a "sciency" guy I like "data".

So to date what I've done is found data that says to kill deer i need 900ft/lb min, 1200ft/lb adequate, and preferably 1500ft/lb impact energy.

Moose data is 2100ft/lb min, 2800ft/lb adequate, 3500ft/lb preferred.

The federal premium noslers I spoke about are around 2800 ft/lb I think...which seems like overkill for deer.

I "know" that there's more going on with the bullet than impact velocities. I understand that the bullet shape, jacketing, etc. will give the bullet different penetration and impact characteristics, such that even if I choose a bullet that carries 3500ft/lbs of energy, the way it imparts that energy is important...too early or too late is no good...so the wrong bullets could just go right through...or fragment in the hide. So if we all agree that the nosler partition is a good bullet to fire from your rifle...do I want to hammer a deer with that much energy?

I had thought I should shoot moose with those (2800ft/lb) but pick something sub 2000ft/lb for deer lest I waste meat.

Is my green-ness showing? That's ok...you don't know till you ask.
 
Ganderite said:
Choose ammo that works well on deer and larger game. like moose. That way you only need one ammo for hunting. Your federal -Nosler is a good choice for both.

Sight your rifle in at 100yards to be bang on, or maybe 2" high. Then slip the zero rings on the scope so your knobs read zero at both elevation and wind. Now you can easily adjust back to zero for your hunting ammo if you make some minor adjust ment to re-zero for cheap practice ammo.
Click to expand...

Big agreement here!!!!!!
:agree:
 
And it sure can't hurt to be at the range popping primers.
Get to know your rifle and scope to be confident when the
ole heart starts to beat........... :D
 
Welcome to Gun Nutz.

I have owned several 30-06 rifles of one brand or other over the years and probably shot as many different sourced rounds. Some rifles react differently to different brands, some do not.

I currently have a brand new Weatherby S2. It will shoot the Winchester super X and Remington (150's) equally well. But when I change to my Nosler loads, the POI not only improves in elevation but windage has to be adjusted too.

Yes, you should crack off a few rounds if you change ammo brands, particuarly bullet type.

For my 30-06's, I have found that the best all round bullet is the 165 grain bullet (partition or ballistic tip).

Enjoy your purchase, go to the range and learn about your rifle and for God's sake, enjoy yourself.
 
Dogleg said:
There's no such thing as over-kill. "Under-dead" though, that can be a real pain in the ass.
Click to expand...

My research doesn't bear this out. If this were true I'd use some cannon that can blow a deer in half. The first advice I ever got on calibre selection was 300 win mag... And that would probably be better for moose, but I've read lots of material suggesting that's way too much gun for deer under about 400yds. The .30-06 was widely recommeded for all purpose gun
 
Theres so much overthinking going on here.

Take your premium hunting ammo you want, sight in with it. Buy some Federal blue box and another brand or two of economy ammo.

Shoot them at 100 yards, I can tell you, if the Federal doesnt damn near match then something else will. Once you find something thats fairly close at 100, you're gonna be extremely close out to 300 yards.Unless you're shooting a 45-70 or some ballistically handicapped cartridge.

But if for example youre shooting 180 Partitions/30-06 in Federal Premium and 180/Federal Blue Box shoots within an inch at 100 yards, I'll put my gun on the line that those two will be damn close out to 300 yards. You're not gonna win competitions, but you'll ring a 10X10" gong over and over.
 
crazydave said:
How much different?

The op doesn't state what is acceptable to him other than the size of a moose's boiler room at 100 yds.

At 100 yds i have not seen a bullet of the same grain shoot so different that the groups are more than a foot apart.

All depends on what the Op deems acceptable, and how picky he is about his groupings.
Click to expand...

I would have to check my logs to confirm, but if I remember correctly the Remington ammo was hitting about 3 inches lower and 3 inches left with a spread of about 2 - 3 inches. The Federal ammo which the gun, Savage 111, was sighted in with was putting groups of half inch at 100.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom