Possible future Red rifles?

[870P]

Type 81
Type 03
KPB A-91
KPB ADS
Kovrov AEK-971/972/973
AK-12

Hopefully at least one of the above will be eventually be available in nonrestricted form in this country, I had typed a detailed description of each design but lost it to a computer glitch and I'm not inlined to retype it, suffice to say, they're pretty interesting.

It also occured to me that there should be plenty of surplus 7.62x39 out there even after the Eastern Euro stuff runs out, as China eventually replaces its multitude of 7.62x39 weapons and also the Russians must still have a bunch of that stuff kicking around and may be inclined to clean out their stockpiles given how much they've moved on.

 

[Satain]

Type 81
Type 03
KPB A-91
KPB ADS
Kovrov AEK-971/972/973
AK-12

Hopefully at least one of the above will be eventually be available in nonrestricted form in this country, I had typed a detailed description of each design but lost it to a computer glitch and I'm not inlined to retype it, suffice to say, they're pretty interesting.

It also occured to me that there should be plenty of surplus 7.62x39 out there even after the Eastern Euro stuff runs out, as China eventually replaces its multitude of 7.62x39 weapons and also the Russians must still have a bunch of that stuff kicking around and may be inclined to clean out their stockpiles given how much they've moved on.

LoL!!!
Actually the romur mill sounds like that mother Russia might move back to the trusty x39 cause there new round stink's.
P.S. Anything AK named or simlar action will be banned according to our RCMP master's.

 

[fireball]

Unless the owner of "Valmet" decides to fire up the "Hunter or M78" line again.

If I had millions in disposable cash sitting around I'd buy the rights to "Valmet" and produce them locally........just to piss off the Libs and Dippers.

 

[TRaTSeRiF]

Haven't you guys learned from QBZ-97? The RCMP is not permissive of adding any new rifles to the list and it's a lot easier for them to ban the red ones. They'll allow a couple of shipments while they get a team of gunsmiths and engineers to figure out how to convert it to full auto and then they'll straight out ban it. Not worth the hassle in CaNOda.

 

[tex_on_the_trigger]

there new round stinks? its a great round and its well loved by there shooters.. the 5.45 and 7.62 if thats what your refering to are two different animals for two different jobs. 5.45 is great for stoping before it throws itself into a second building if the risk is civi casualties as well as it has one heck of a leathal punch as it is designed to destabilize on impact.

 

[TRaTSeRiF]

The main advantage of the poodle-shooter calibers is that you can carry more into an engagement due to weight savings. Also, less of a recoil. Saving the civvies and the birds and the bees is just lip service.

The effects of a poodle-shooter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-q2zHIovOE <-- hit multiple times, gets away, gets taken to a hospital.. Had the old man been keeping an AK, at least one invader would have littered the ground

 

[JNA]

Id be interested in several of those rifles if they come in NR.

 

[Fouadm]

id be interested in several of those rifles if they come in nr.

+2 .

 

[870P]

The main advantage of the poodle-shooter calibers is that you can carry more into an engagement due to weight savings. Also, less of a recoil. Saving the civvies and the birds and the bees is just lip service.

The effects of a poodle-shooter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-q2zHIovOE <-- hit multiple times, gets away, gets taken to a hospital.. Had the old man been keeping an AK, at least one invader would have littered the ground

5.45 7N6 is a different animal compared to commerical 5.56 or even milspec FMJ, I've seen it compared to commercial .223 softpoint as far as terminal effects. The only real downsides to it are that its easily deflected and has poor overall penetration.

Anyway, either the AK-12 or an improved version of the AEK-971 will be the next Russian general service rifle from what I can tell, although it appears the ADS amphibious rifle will be adopted by certain service branches.

 

[.30/06 FTW]

Type 81-Possibly and hopefully
Type 03-I don't really know much about it, but no one has plans to bring any in
KPB A-91-Type 97 waiting to happen
KPB ADS- ^ same
Kovrov AEK-971/972/973-Pretty much an AK with recoil balancing, so no no
AK-12-It's an AK, do you seriously think this has a chance?

 

[870P]

Type 81-Possibly and hopefully
Type 03-I don't really know much about it, but no one has plans to bring any in
KPB A-91-Type 97 waiting to happen
KPB ADS- ^ same
Kovrov AEK-971/972/973-Pretty much an AK with recoil balancing, so no no
AK-12-It's an AK, do you seriously think this has a chance?

What was the situation with the Type 97, was the RCMP playing cute or did the Chinese underengineer a semiauto mechanism? I'll admit the AK-12 is a long shot but the AEK shares no parts besides magazines with, and is no closer to being, an AK than the Type 81.

 

[TRaTSeRiF]

What was the situation with the Type 97, was the RCMP playing cute or did the Chinese underengineer a semiauto mechanism? I'll admit the AK-12 is a long shot but the AEK shares no parts besides magazines with, and is no closer to being, an AK than the Type 81.

I'm not 100% sure on the story, but I do know that when the RCMP was contacted by the importer in order to resolve the (then) alleged technical issue, so they could resolve it amicably (possibly issue replacement parts and alter the production), the RCMP stonewalled'em and forced'em into a lengthy and costly legal battle. Well the RCMP didn't care, they were only pissing away taxpayer dollars.

 

[onthehunt]

Would be cool if we could get "super vepr" rifles in Canada. They would make wicked dragunov clones.

 

[.30/06 FTW]

What was the situation with the Type 97, was the RCMP playing cute or did the Chinese underengineer a semiauto mechanism? I'll admit the AK-12 is a long shot but the AEK shares no parts besides magazines with, and is no closer to being, an AK than the Type 81.

Pretty much the RCMP as far as we know, since there is no civilian oversight of their firearms lab. They could have gotten a real QBZ-97 from China for all we know, after all it did take them 18 months to make it full auto.

Even with its recoil balancing system, the AEK still has a long stroke gas piston does it not? The Type 81 has a short stroke much like the SKS. And let's not forget, the Mitchell AK22/Armi Jager AP80 share absolutely nothing with the AK, yet they are considered "variants". Never underestimate the stupidity (or agenda driven decision making) of the RCMP.

 

[arizonaicedtea]

What was the situation with the Type 97, was the RCMP playing cute or did the Chinese underengineer a semiauto mechanism? I'll admit the AK-12 is a long shot but the AEK shares no parts besides magazines with, and is no closer to being, an AK than the Type 81.

Man, air-soft AKs share no parts commonality with real AKs, and yet at least one brand of them have become prohibited items. And those umarex MP5/22s don't have a whole lot of similar parts when compared to an MP5. If they applied the same logic to the situation as they did with the CZ 858 we might see the AEK but I think the only reason we still have the 858 at all (ie, not banned) is due to the large number of existing rifles. If the RCMP could get a 'do-over' for the class ruling on the 858 I'd be willing to bet they'd rule it an AK variant, despite it having different internals.
Hooboy, the RCMP could make a Ford Model T engine into an automatic rifle if you gave them enough time. But hey, thats what your tax dollars are for, correct?

But hey, if the AK12 or AEK do make it in I'll be first in line to buy them, the AK12 is one sick looking rifle.

 

[870P]

Man, air-soft AKs share no parts commonality with real AKs, and yet at least one brand of them have become prohibited items. And those umarex MP5/22s don't have a whole lot of similar parts when compared to an MP5. If they applied the same logic to the situation as they did with the CZ 858 we might see the AEK but I think the only reason we still have the 858 at all (ie, not banned) is due to the large number of existing rifles. If the RCMP could get a 'do-over' for the class ruling on the 858 I'd be willing to bet they'd rule it an AK variant, despite it having different internals.
Hooboy, the RCMP could make a Ford Model T engine into an automatic rifle if you gave them enough time. But hey, thats what your tax dollars are for, correct?

But hey, if the AK12 or AEK do make it in I'll be first in line to buy them, the AK12 is one sick looking rifle.

We'll see I guess.

I hear the AEK is supposed to be updated with rails and a folding telescoping stock in order to compete with the AK-12, I just wonder if they're going to stay with the same sight setup or go to a rear mounted peep like AK-12?

 

[NoBark]

I'm interested in the Type 81 but the suggested price is going to be something like $1200and the barrel is 2mm shorter than what it needs to be classed as non-restricted. I don't think $1200 is a good price for a chinese gun. I'm not interested in the rest of the rifles listed. If the AK-12 actually makes it into the country, how much do you think that thing will cost? I would guess it will be pretty damn expensive.

 

[870P]

I'm interested in the Type 81 but the suggested price is going to be something like $1200and the barrel is 2mm shorter than what it needs to be classed as non-restricted. I don't think $1200 is a good price for a chinese gun. I'm not interested in the rest of the rifles listed. If the AK-12 actually makes it into the country, how much do you think that thing will cost? I would guess it will be pretty damn expensive.

If the Type 81 is allowed in, it will be available with a nonrestricted length barrel. $1200 is starting to get up there but its still a lot cheaper than many alternatives, and we could see prices for these come down in future seeing as they are both cheaper to produce and a lot more numerous than the VZ58.

If you don't want to spring for a expensive new design, no problem there'd still be lots of low cost SKS' around and prices would probably drop a bit on the VZ58s if there were more alternatives.

 

[NoBark]

If the Type 81 is allowed in, it will be available with a nonrestricted length barrel. $1200 is starting to get up there but its still a lot cheaper than many alternatives, and we could see prices for these come down in future seeing as they are both cheaper to produce and a lot more numerous than the VZ58.

If you don't want to spring for a expensive new design, no problem there'd still be lots of low cost SKS' around and prices would probably drop a bit on the VZ58s if there were more alternatives.

Oh I would really like to get that Type 81 in a non-restricted barrel length. Its just Id have to think long and hard before wanting to pay $1200 for one. I won't be the first person in line for one, thats for sure. If they get approved, i'll wait until they're flooding the market like the Vz 58 and wait for the price to come down. I may even look for a used one a year after they come out.

 

[762mm]

I don't have a problem dropping $950 for a CSA or $700 for a CZ-858... or even $3500 for a Swiss Arms. But hell will freeze over before I pay $1200 for a chinese gun, which is bound to be inferior to the CSA/CZ or even to a Russian SKS in nearly every way.



If Norinco quality is any indication (including their SKS's), the Type 81 will be a $150 gun at best, quality-wise... and its' manufacturer will still be making a sh*tload of profit even at that price. Just because it "looks" AK-ish doesn't mean we should be suckered into paying through our noses for it.