crazy idea...

plinker 777

plinker 777

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So lets say I have a .45 percussion cap rifle, and lets say I pour 80 grains of Goex fff down the muzzle and I seat a patched ball on top of said powder. Then lets say I seat another .45 cal ball sans patch on top of the patched ball, place a cap on the nipple and pull the trigger... Kaboom (I just F'd up my barrel) or 2 tightly placed rounds on target at say 50-75 yards?

I'm going kind of stir crazy with the thought. Has anyone tried this and can report on the result, putting poor Plinkers mind at ease:rolleyes:?

While I'm on the subject, how would someone load "buck and ball" in a rifle? some sort of hand made sabot?
 
Load in this sequence,
powder
ball,
patch ball.
only the second ball is patched,;) keeps it tightly seated against the bottom ball, I've only used my target loads though, 50 grains of FFFg.
You should see the effect on a pumpkin G:
Cheers nessy.
 
99% sure loading RBs by accident has happened at a rendezvous or two (I've almost done it, talking and loading), someone will hopefully chime in here who's done it and still has all their fingers. I'd want to be darn sure the two balls were tight together so they move at the same time...if you have an oversize patch on the bottom RB that could interfere.

I say this with the caveat that I have not tried this, but some people load multiple round balls in cartridges such as the .45 Colt and .45-70. Results are reportedly like buckshot, far from accurate. That's obviously without a patch.

Edit: There ya go, Nessy357 answered while I was typing :)
 
I shoot 2 and 3 .360" balls with a .410 cup/wad out of my Lee-Enfield Musket. Use .303 cases straightened out, with LR primer and Unique.

Wouldn't want to stand in front of it.... or even too close to one side.
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double balling and the bullets strike a fair bit low in a vertical line. I would never load a second unpatched ball because of the probability that it would roll forward and become in effect a bore obstruction.

You can tell if you have loaded a second patched ball because you end up with an enormous air spring and the ram rod tend to jump back up. You have to hold the ball down while the entrapped air escapes and as Nessy mentioned, very important that the two balls are more or less touching and at the bottom of the barrel

cheers mooncoon
 
I have done it more than once with an un-patched ball over a patched one and also 2 patched balls together over 70 grains FFFg in my 45 caplock with no problems. I was proofing new barels so can't speak to accuracy. The barrels were always level so the unpatched ball would not roll fwd. Placing the second patched ball is difficult and slow because the air trapped under it must be allowed to escape so the top ball sits tight on the first one. I have used as much as 150 gr FFFg in such a proof load with no problems in my 45 cal.
 
Thanks guys...you know I"m going to do it:D. I do have one question though, some stated to put the patched ball last for fear of the ball falling out/ forward in the barrel.

This isn't a smoothbore...my un-patched balls have to cut themselves on the rifling, so falling out or moving forward is most unlikely.
Am I using ball that are too big? Should you be able to drop an un-patched ball down the barrel?

Smellie; I finally found some Hornady 303 savage rounds. (I bought 4 boxes) How's the brass for reloading? This is brand new stuff (150 grain) who knows how long the production run will last, so if it's decent brass I'll get more.
 
plinker 777 said:
Thanks guys...you know I"m going to do it:D. I do have one question though, some stated to put the patched ball last for fear of the ball falling out/ forward in the barrel.

This isn't a smoothbore...my un-patched balls have to cut themselves on the rifling, so falling out or moving forward is most unlikely.
Am I using ball that are too big? Should you be able to drop an un-patched ball down the barrel?

Smellie; I finally found some Hornady 303 savage rounds. (I bought 4 boxes) How's the brass for reloading? This is brand new stuff (150 grain) who knows how long the production run will last, so if it's decent brass I'll get more.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are using the wrong size to me. Your ball should be either .440 or .445. Maybe you are using .454? They are made for percussion revolvers as you require a tight fit in the cylinders. Check out the size you are shooting and I think you will find they are too large. As I mentioned, use a .440 or .445 and use a .010 or .015 thick patch to make up the difference. You must be having one heck of a time getting the balls to swage into the muzzle! Especially if you are patching them as well!
I have fired 2 balls out of my guns in the past and never had any kind of problem but keep to target loads.

Cheers. Steve.
 
So I've tried it with very interesting results (.457 BTW Mooncoon and yes to swage them I have to pound them into the barrel with the wood on my ball starter.)
Using 60 grains of fff and shooting bullseye @ 50 yards produced a drop of 4" and to the left 2". The balls struck the target about an inch apart (center to center). :) cool.
Next shot I held over the bull about 4 or 5". Again the balls struck the paper about an inch apart and almost horizontal to center, but this time 2-3" to the right!?
3rd shot, I changed the patch (they really are a b1tch to start) to some cotton tee shirt material that I use for cleaning the bore which is much thinner than my patches. Whhhollly smokes! The balls struck the target 8-10 inches apart and not horizontal to each other at all, the lower one which punched the board and not the paper was like 6" lower and to the left. the higher of the 2 was low and to the left as well. I was amazed at the difference patching can make to accuracy at 50yds.

I short this was fun and all...but far too inaccurate for any practical hunting purposes. I had also envisioned pulling 3 or 4 .22 bullets and try "buck and ball" but felt after these 3 shots it would most likely be even worse, and perhaps spread to other targets on the range.

If I had raised the powder charge to say 80 grains would this "in theory" lower my need for hold over?
 
Far be it from me to offer advice BUT :>)
1. if the gun is 45 cal, you should be using .440 balls and maybe .445 but I would lean strongly to the .440.

2. an old T shirt is not a particularly good choice of patching because it is probably worn in places which means that you would not be using a uniform patch thickness. Also many T shirts have some nylon in them which is another no no. I buy my patching as 100% cotton from Fabric Land and use a micrometer to select it.

3. You should not have to really pound the balls down the barrel and basically if you have the right combination of ball and patch it takes a couple of thumps with your hand on the short starter but it should not hurt your hand

4. the "buck and ball" idea using 22 slugs and the whole combination in a rifled barrel does not work partly because elongate slugs tumbling out of a barrel are erratic and partly because the rifling will disperse them widely

cheers mooncoon

* if I were inclined to offer advice I would say read points 1 - 4 :>) :>)
 
I am smiling a lot when I read this post :) :) :) yes it is a crazy idea but fact is in my younger days, well a few years ago anyways, I wasn't near as smart and a little crazy. I read somewhere that some famous old mountain man used 120 grains of FFFG and two patched balls in old Nellie, I mean it's no big deal I thought- a couple 490 lead balls weigh about 360 grains so just like shooting my conical's, SO of course I had to try this in my 50 cal. TC , I had a mule deer tag and had been watching a really good buck in late summer, knew where he bedded every day, on the side of a coulee. But back to the load testing. What I determined was: that there was very little loss of accuracy on one ball (presumably the last one down the pipe?) The other one was about an inch or sometimes two low and could be left or right as I remember This was at 50 yards, at 100 things got silly.So decided 50 was max I would shoot. The recoil was horrendous but once lined up it would pretty much always put one ball right in the ring. Very hard to seat the second ball especially about the third shot, so I kept it clean, the third loading would go a little erratic too but no problem I wasn't going to be blazing away at this deer. First morning of season, no deer on the side of coulee :confused:, second morning no deer :rolleyes: deer vanished, third morning there he was so I crawled and crawled and crawled wind was right, finally took a peek through the sage brush, there he was so close all I could see was his huge horns, he was facing away lying on his side, I could hear him chewing his cud, I poked ole Betsey through the sage and held on the center of the biggest hump of grey. There was a terrible explosion a lot of smoke and a horrible pain in my shoulder from shooting prone. That old buck never twitched, kicked or moved one bit--- dead as a post, two holes in his back just like a pair of eyes. When I finally stopped hurting I stepped it off -- seven long paces! Well would I recommend this load for hunting , well I don't know about that, would I do it again if I could --You betcha, in a minute. just about the biggest thrill of my life. :cheers:
 
I shot a 50 yard chunk gun match, string measure two years ago. The match is shot prone and to my misfortune, the spot I was shooting from angled uphill behind me. Using a 50 rifle with 50 gr of 3F, that position was so uncomfortable on the shoulder that I almost stopped shooting after 5 or 6 shots. If ever I shoot the match again it will be with a shotgun butt style stock

cheers mooncoon
 
plinker 777 said:
Chunk guns are cool. Want!!
Click to expand...

this match was up at Heffley Creek near Kamloops. The match was open to all and shot with the same rifles we shot the trails with. One thing I found was that a deep hooked butt plate is extremely painful when shot prone and even more so if you are laying with your feet up a bit.

what was instructive was that in order to keep shooting, I made up a quick pad of several layers of corrugated cardboard (from a clay pidgeon box) While that protected my shoulder, the loose compressible support for the but resulted in a significant increase in my group size. I would normally expect to get about a 2" group at 50 yards but on the second 5 shots with the cardboard, the group opened up to about 4" or a bit more

cheers mooncoon
 
If your 2 balls (the ones in the gun, I mean:D) are touching, you should be OK. I use 70 gr. of fffG with a 250 gr. maxi ball, which is just shy of the weight of 2 RB's. Actually, in the rifles I use Maxi's in, anything over 70 gr. and accuracy starts to go downhill. With 70 gr., the rifle will outshoot me.
 
I found the accuracy far from good even at 50 yards with two balls (err...lead ones). I couldn't reliably hit anything smaller than say 16" square. The rounds will consistently land somewhere in this area, but where seems to be anybodies guess. Ok for moose I suppose, if you were to get this close/ call him in this close.

In BSA Jack's scenario, no problem and actually if one could do the job, two are better right:D!
 
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