Why bolts and scopes.

BC Bigbore said:
Here in BC that's one hour before sunrise to one hour after sunset. A young bull moose, 250 yards across an alfalfa field standing against the bush in the last fleeting minutes of light is impossible for me without a scope. Or that big whitetail buck sneaking out of the oats and back into the bush when stars are just starting to fade in the pre-dawn, and the hoarfrost is beginning to glisten...:cool:
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Personally I wouldn't take the shot that close to sunset... The idea of field dressing a Moose at night doesn't sound appealing to me. :p
 
archie_james_c said:
No, just like you CAN drive a 350 carb job, or play ball with a leather helmet, no ones stopping you. But as far as the trends go nowdays, scopes, and clean barrels are "in", just like in the 80's when Chev Scottsdales with pushbars and Hella lights were "in", or the early-mid 90's when Garth Brooks was cool, its just the way the style of rifles are going now. Bolt actions...well they've always been the obvious winner as far as rifle actions are concerned..

No ones stopping you from shooting irons.
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Methinks too many hunters these days worry too much about "what is in".
It's hunting... Not a fashion show. :D

I suspect if some gun rag came out with an article on using glitter as Camo there would be posts here with folks covering themselves with the latest Camo covered slut dust, lol.

I'm also thinking of the mossy oak/real tree Camo overload... Mugs, underware, key fobs... Friggen Camo key fobs FFS, think about this for a minute, lol.

/rant off
/coffee settling. :D
 
Calum said:
Methinks too many hunters these days worry too much about "what is in".
It's hunting... Not a fashion show. :D

I suspect if some gun rag came out with an article on using glitter as Camo there would be posts here with folks covering themselves with the latest Camo covered slut dust, lol.

I'm also thinking of the mossy oak/real tree Camo overload... Mugs, underware, key fobs... Friggen Camo key fobs FFS, think about this for a minute, lol.

/rant off
/coffee settling. :D
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My favourite is the camo GPS. Try finding that one when it falls out of your pocket.

On a serious note, what are Williams peeps like at close range (sub 50 feet or so)?
 
Not sure on 50 feet. The closest I shot was 25 yards at the range. Worked really well.

I would suggest at 25ft an iron would be far superior to a scope though.

It's closer to he bore and doesn't have parallax and there won't be any focusing issues.
 
Calum said:
Methinks too many hunters these days worry too much about "what is in".
It's hunting... Not a fashion show. :D

I suspect if some gun rag came out with an article on using glitter as Camo there would be posts here with folks covering themselves with the latest Camo covered slut dust, lol.

I'm also thinking of the mossy oak/real tree Camo overload... Mugs, underware, key fobs... Friggen Camo key fobs FFS, think about this for a minute, lol.

/rant off
/coffee settling. :D
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Man, do I ever agree with this, what a effin' joke, talk about runaway clone-ism. You should see some of the "hunters" that walk off the plane at our airport.
Now I have to tell this one, I was picking some one up last fall and this gentleman walked off the plane in full western dress, cowboy hat, riding boots, vest and neck scarf and of course jeans and western style shirt.............all in some form of matching camo. (I don't know one from the other) It was all I could do to keep from busting out in a full blown belly laugh.
 
ALBERTA BOY said:
Not sure on 50 feet. The closest I shot was 25 yards at the range. Worked really well.

I would suggest at 25ft an iron would be far superior to a scope though.

It's closer to he bore and doesn't have parallax and there won't be any focusing issues.
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Young man, you need some more experience with quality scopes and you need to be a little more informed. At 25 ft and less, I practice my trigger control by shooting (without live rounds of course) mounts of animals on my trophy room walls. My sight picture is crystal clear with any power 4X and under and at 25 ft there is no such thing as parallax (ok there is theoretically, but in practical application it would be in sub, sub moa) the difference would be less than 1/2th the width of the bullet.
I will grant you that all the issues you bring up are valid when talking cheap scopes that do not focus under 25 mtrs and have the light gathering ability of a coffee cup and the clarity of the contents of said coffee cup. These issues of old have all been dealt with in new UPPER END scopes. Buy top end Leupold and Zeiss and you will find none of these concerns present.
I must maintain that even for close up work and heavy bush I still prefer a low powered (high quality) scope to sights, and most especially in low light.
 
ALBERTA BOY said:
Not sure on 50 feet. The closest I shot was 25 yards at the range. Worked really well.

I would suggest at 25ft an iron would be far superior to a scope though.

It's closer to he bore and doesn't have parallax and there won't be any focusing issues.
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OK, thanks

25 yards is mostly closer to what I'd be shooting anyhow, but ive had a few chances at deer much closer. My 3030 is my pushing gun and I'd like to upgrade the old buckhorn.
 
Calum said:
Methinks too many hunters these days worry too much about "what is in".
It's hunting... Not a fashion show. :D

I suspect if some gun rag came out with an article on using glitter as Camo there would be posts here with folks covering themselves with the latest Camo covered slut dust, lol.

I'm also thinking of the mossy oak/real tree Camo overload... Mugs, underware, key fobs... Friggen Camo key fobs FFS, think about this for a minute, lol.

/rant off
/coffee settling. :D
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Dont get me wrong Calum, I know what you're saying. The OP asked a question though and I answered it. Its true. Everyone wants a clean barrel, a matte black scope and a synthtic stock now. As well as a truck with XM Radio, on demand 4X4, or an Iphone instead of a land line, and an LCD Tv over tube.

Its like asking "why does everyone own LCD Tvs now, what was wrong with tube TV's???" You damn well know the answer why.
 
I wear camo for everyday clothes. I'm a redneck and proud of it.

When I hunt though...

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You get the idea. I wear safety orange or red when I hunt. I also use a scoped bolt. I have been eyeballing a BLR in .308 though as my .30-06 seems to do a number on my shoulder when practicing at the range. When hunting I don't even notice the recoil though.
 
Personally I wouldn't take the shot that close to sunset... The idea of field dressing a Moose at night doesn't sound appealing to me.
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Ah c'mon Calum, where's your sense of adventure ;) Gutting a bull moose alone in the dark in bear central makes for some exciting stuff. I'd like to always shoot 'em at first light, but you take 'em when you can and most start moving just at the edge of last legal light.

Man, do I ever agree with this, what a effin' joke, talk about runaway clone-ism. You should see some of the "hunters" that walk off the plane at our airport.
Now I have to tell this one, I was picking some one up last fall and this gentleman walked off the plane in full western dress, cowboy hat, riding boots, vest and neck scarf and of course jeans and western style shirt.............all in some form of matching camo. (I don't know one from the other) It was all I could do to keep from busting out in a full blown belly laugh.
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LOL, same here in northern BC :)
 
c-fbmi said:
OP, to address your question directly.........because it is the most accurate and efficient way to send a projectile downrange.
I own something in excess of 60 lever guns and few are more fanatical about them than I am. I load for and shoot almost every one of them. By the same token I own in excess of 60 bolt guns, roughly 3 or 4 of which I actually use to hunt. The monster scopes are not for me, neither are the 8 or 9 lb rifles. I think you got caught up in the "flavor of the week" syndrome and lost sight (pardon the pun) of the effectiveness of a quality 6 1/2 lb bolt gun with a fixed 6X or 2-7 X good quality scope. Even with aging eyes I can be very effective with irons on a lever gun but I also realize that I'm more effective with a good low mounted, moderate powered scope on a bolt gun.
As far as being a better hunter by using a lever and the limitations that come with irons or appatures, well I am also an accomplished bow hunter so I don't have to prove I'm a better hunter because I can do it with turn of the LAST century equipment.

I also wish to add this, I think you are generalizing a bit much. I have levers that weigh as little as 5 1/2 lbs (Win 92 in 44 mag) but I also have levers that weigh more than a heavy barrelled varmint rig with a 25 X target scope (Win 1876 with 28" barrel in 45-60 has got to weigh 11 or 12 lbs). Neither one of which is any faster or better in any way than my 350 RM in a Rem Mod 7 with Kevlar stock and Leupold 1.5-5 Vari X III that weighs about 6.5 lbs. It also has the modern advantages of a recoil pad and Magna-porting. It is easily capable of taking game at 50 feet to 300 mtrs and farther. It shoulders just as fast, points just as well and hits harder than any lever I own.
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I was going to say something , but this is pretty much it. A lever gun fits a niche , while a bolt gun with a scope will do everything and pretty damn well.
 
Thinking about my distance for zero and came across this from Chuckhawks:

"Set up a scoped .30-30 so that the Winchester Supreme 150 grain factory load strikes dead on at 200 yards and the trajectory looks like this: +3.3 inches high at 100 yards, +2.8 at 150 yards, 0 at 200 yards, -5.7" at 250 yards, and -14.7" at 300 yards. The point blank range of a .30-30 set up this way is almost 250 yards for deer size animals.

With the standard Winchester Silvertip 170 grain factory load it is probably better to zero the rifle to hit 2.9" high at 100 yards. That way the bullet strikes only 1.8 inches low at 200 yards. So sighted the .30-30 has a MPBR (+/- 3") of 211 yards."
 
reason i don't own a lever is cause they never came up at a price i was willing to pay and didn't find the calibers attractive at all.

blr is prob the only lever i would investagate. or MAYBE a marlin in 45-70 other then that 30-30 38-55 32 spec 45 44 44-40 444 308 marlin can all remain in the hands of another.
 
ALBERTA BOY said:
With the standard Winchester Silvertip 170 grain factory load it is probably better to zero the rifle to hit 2.9" high at 100 yards. That way the bullet strikes only 1.8 inches low at 200 yards. So sighted the .30-30 has a MPBR (+/- 3") of 211 yards."
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If you think your staying in 3" with this sight in may I suggest you need to set a target at 125-130 yds. You will find the bullet still rising to roughly 3.5".

Have you calculated your remaining velocity and ENERGY at 200 mtrs.
 
guntech said:
If your eyes can handle iron sights and your target distances are suitable, go for it. It is a personal choice.

If you want the best accuracy you get that from a bolt action.

If your eyes are not suited to iron sights and you want fine target acquisition you get that from a scope. (especially at longer ranges)

It's a personal choice.
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This post makes a lot of sense.
 
Calum said:
Personally I wouldn't take the shot that close to sunset... The idea of field dressing a Moose at night doesn't sound appealing to me. :p
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Gutting and skinning in the dark is not my first choice but when the right animal comes along the last hour of legal light is not going to stop me. I've dressed a number of animals by flashlight - not my first choice but very doable.
 
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