Empty hole/Important hole?

[superfluid]

too funny.......

it's for venting gas LOL
and i suppose water should it get in there

the reason it is there for the gas, is that those gasses , if trapped and allowed to settle inside the stock, collect on the surfaces of the rifle and cause pitting/rust ect. primarily right above the piston on the barrel and the oprod tube.

i've got a video showing it very clearly and i'll see if i can post a link.

I've seen this assertion repeated many times, and I'm afraid it is incorrect.

Take a step back and think about it for a minute; The only place where a significant amount of gas is eliminated is, as Silent8Strike stated, from the gas cylinder relief port, on the front of the gun, OUTSIDE the stock. When the gas piston is fully extended it clears the gas relief port which causes the gasses to be ejected, outside and to the front of the stock. Where else, on the gun, other than this location, would gas be coming from? The drain hole is used to drain/vent water which would otherwise pool inside the stock under torrential conditions. Period.

Second, the stock is entirely not air tight, with an infinite number of avenues for theoretical gasses to exit. For example, have you ever noticed how loose the hand-guard is? It would be impossible for any gas to be trapped within the stock.

Thirdly, the point of the stock is to act as an interface between the barreled-action and the human operator. It would make no sense for hot gasses to be ejected on the part of the gun which is meant to be held by a human.

As has been stated previously, unless you're planning on submerging the firearm, it should be fine to plug. The only reason not to use the drain/vent/weep hole to mount a sling stud is that it may not be the most structurally sound place on the stock to do so. (ie it may not have been designed to bear that stress)

References:

http://m14forum.com/m14/81077-acceptable-plug-weep-hole.html
http://m14forum.com/m14/74381-help-hole-stock.html

P.S.

In general no one should be afraid to question the advice of experts and challenge assumptions via critical thought. For a long time experts believed the world was flat and later that the universe orbited around the Earth.

 

[t-star]

I want to mount a sling swivel stud and/or a picattiny rail on the front of my m305, but I have gotten different answers about the empty hole in front of the sling mount.
Some say it's just an empty hole, but I heard it could be a gas vent.

Can I cover it with a rail or put a sling swivel stud in it?
I want to mount a fixed sling point, and a bi-pod.

i definately wouldn't use it if that's a picture of your forestock- i can see either a crack or a repaired crack running from just behind the ferrule to almost where the drain hole is- if you need a hole, it's simple enough to drill out the forward rivet anyway- like a 2 second job- if you want to remove the sling swivel entirely- some folks do, drill out the rear as well- i'd also epoxy that crack just to be on the safe side

 

[t-star]

i'd love to find that "comic book" again- i've seen bits and pieces of it here and there( i have the one for the m16) but never the entire book- i know it exists as i've seen it, but only from gunshows /collectors- it was the greatest piece of kit ever issued to gomers

 

[metcalfe]

i definately wouldn't use it if that's a picture of your forestock- i can see either a crack or a repaired crack running from just behind the ferrule to almost where the drain hole is- if you need a hole, it's simple enough to drill out the forward rivet anyway- like a 2 second job- if you want to remove the sling swivel entirely- some folks do, drill out the rear as well- i'd also epoxy that crack just to be on the safe side

Good advice, but no worries, that isn't my stock. It's a pic I found online.

 

[superfluid]

i'd love to find that "comic book" again- i've seen bits and pieces of it here and there( i have the one for the m16) but never the entire book- i know it exists as i've seen it, but only from gunshows /collectors- it was the greatest piece of kit ever issued to gomers

http://www.m14.ca/articles/24638677-Be-Your-Own-Inspector-The-M14-Rifle.pdf

Thank you, m14.ca!

 

[zuke]

http://www.m14.ca/articles/24638677-Be-Your-Own-Inspector-The-M14-Rifle.pdf

Thank you, m14.ca!

Found it!
Thank you!
Now how do I save it to my computer?

 

[45ACPKING]

I've seen this assertion repeated many times, and I'm afraid it is incorrect.

Take a step back and think about it for a minute; The only place where a significant amount of gas is eliminated is, as Silent8Strike stated, from the gas cylinder relief port, on the front of the gun, OUTSIDE the stock. When the gas piston is fully extended it clears the gas relief port which causes the gasses to be ejected, outside and to the front of the stock. Where else, on the gun, other than this location, would gas be coming from? The drain hole is used to drain/vent water which would otherwise pool inside the stock under torrential conditions. Period.

Second, the stock is entirely not air tight, with an infinite number of avenues for theoretical gasses to exit. For example, have you ever noticed how loose the hand-guard is? It would be impossible for any gas to be trapped within the stock.

Thirdly, the point of the stock is to act as an interface between the barreled-action and the human operator. It would make no sense for hot gasses to be ejected on the part of the gun which is meant to be held by a human.

As has been stated previously, unless you're planning on submerging the firearm, it should be fine to plug. The only reason not to use the drain/vent/weep hole to mount a sling stud is that it may not be the most structurally sound place on the stock to do so. (ie it may not have been designed to bear that stress)

References:

http://m14forum.com/m14/81077-acceptable-plug-weep-hole.html
http://m14forum.com/m14/74381-help-hole-stock.html

P.S.

In general no one should be afraid to question the advice of experts and challenge assumptions via critical thought. For a long time experts believed the world was flat and later that the universe orbited around the Earth.

Nobody holds the rifle at the "vent" hole LOL

The fact that gasses ... And moisture vent out that hole is something I see, frequently coming out of stocks. I design and manufacture rifle stocks.... It's my job to know what happens inside the stock when that hole is plugged.

Try it for yourself. Go blow off 300 or 500 rounds with a clean rifle and clean stock interior.
After, take it apart and wipe it all down, the barrel, inside stock ect. Use a clean white rag and when yer done, save that rag.

Then plug that hole and repeat the same test, 300 to 500 rounds and use a 2nd clean white rag to whipe the same areas.

You WILL find what we found and I'll leave it at that.

All that said, MANY folks in the US and Canada and no doubt elsewhere, have plugged that hole with a bipod stud and their #### did not fall off.
So to each his own
But they do make items specifically designed for mounting bipods to M14 stocks, and those units seem awfully popular and reasonably affordable.

 

[phoenix_rising]

[youtube]v1C0y4NUsIk[/youtube]

 

[Grizzly Adams]

If they put it there, there's very probably a GOOD reason.

Grizz

 

[Conte]

You know, I never put much thought into that hole.

One of the first things I did after I got my rifle was pop a stud into it so I could mount a bi-pod.

The gun has not had any complaints.

 

[t-star]

http://www.m14.ca/articles/24638677-Be-Your-Own-Inspector-The-M14-Rifle.pdf

Thank you, m14.ca!

it's gone dead now

 

[phoenix_rising]

it's gone dead now

This is what it show's...

& I think if my eye's are not lying to me it refer's to it as a drain/vent whole...
But WTF I know???

 

[Rocket Surgery]

That's where you don't point when they ask you to show on the gun where they touched you

 

[Travis Bickle]

Here it is, a reply straight from Springfield Arms regarding the stock hole
I own a Norinco M14 but they don't have to know that :


Hi ###,

Thank you for your email. You are correct that is the weep hole and it is used for drainage of water and venting gas. I would not recommend blocking that hole. Thank you for choosing Springfield Inc.



Have a nice day!

Sarah

Customer Service

Springfield Armory

800-680-6866


From: ###x [mailto:###xx@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 9:10 AM
To: Sarah Woods
Subject: Sales Email - Sent: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 22:04:31 -0400 - M1A Stock?



Hello! I own a springfield M1A from your company. Probably my favourite rifle of all the ones I own. I have a question though, Regarding the small hole forward of the front sling swivel mount in the bottom foreend of the stock, what is the purpose of this hole? I have been told it is for venting gas and for drainage of water should the rifle be used in wet conditions. Is this correct? I ask because I was planning on mounting a bipod using this hole vice removing the sling swivel. Any clarification as to the specific purpose of this hole in the stock and wether it is recomended a good idea as to plug it would be greatly appreciated. Keep up the good work guys! Cheers! -###

Now on with the comments that Springfield Arms doesn't know what they're talking about of course........

 

[45ACPKING]

Neither do I it seems LOL
Fire away kiddies
Thanx for taking the time to clarify that one for the newbs and nonbeleivers travis

 

[Rocket Surgery]

Haha of course they're going to say that because they can't control what people do to their guns, so if some retard hooks up a chainsaw to the drainage hole and cuts his leg into 5 pieces they can say they didn't recommend that.

Clogging the drainage hole doesn't change anything. I'm willing to bet that the rock river arsenal rifles that the US military use don't have drainage holes.

 

[Travis Bickle]

Haha of course they're going to say that because they can't control what people do to their guns, so if some retard hooks up a chainsaw to the drainage hole and cuts his leg into 5 pieces they can say they didn't recommend that.

Clogging the drainage hole doesn't change anything. I'm willing to bet that the rock river arsenal rifles that the US military use don't have drainage holes.

When it comes to guns, I always err on the side of caution.

Springfield Arms says don't plug the hole, I don't plug the hole.

That's all I have to say on that.

 

[Different]

From M14 Rifle History and Development Fifth Edition:

"One of the designers that worked for Mr. Cole was Guilio V. Savioli. Mr. Savioli immediately went to work at Springfield Armory upon graduating from high school. He designed the M1E3 bolt which featured the bolt roller later adopted in the M14. During the rain test of a T44, the barrel channel in the stock became flooded. So, Mr. Savioli solved the problem by designing the 5/16 " diameter hole into the bottom of the stock just forward of the sling swivel. He also designed the pre-’61 cleaning kit combination tool. After Springfield Armory closed in 1968, he worked at the Rodman Laboratory at Rock Island Arsenal and then at Picatinny Arsenal. He retired with thirty years of government service and at least eleven U. S. Patents to his credit. Mr. Savioli passed away in 2009."

 

[Evil_Edie]

I have no knowledge of m14s and anything of the like however after reading this thread and looking at the videos i have come to this conclusion:

Though blocking the hole would be a bad idea the term "vent" may not be the best one to describe the function of this hole. "Venting" implies a more forceful action, rather the hole simply allows gases to drain from the stock. somewhere along the way some of the hot gas gets into that area and the hole essentially allows it to bleed out instead of sitting in there. If blocked rather than build up pressure or impede proper gas venting from the cylinder, it simply builds up much like toxic gases inside a mine or fumes from the engine of your car running in a closed garage. such build up of the gas would cause erosion of the wood or w/e material is involved here.

again i have no prior knowledge so this is just a guess, i'm curious as to whether my assumption here is correct or am i just spewing nonsense? Another factor which points me towards this conclusion is the fact that apparently no one knew for sure and that supposedly some people do block that hole, which implies that the consequences are minor or hard to attribute to the blocking of the hole by anyone who has no knowledge of it's purpose.

 

[superfluid]

I have no knowledge of m14s and anything of the like however after reading this thread and looking at the videos i have come to this conclusion:

Though blocking the hole would be a bad idea the term "vent" may not be the best one to describe the function of this hole. "Venting" implies a more forceful action, rather the hole simply allows gases to drain from the stock. somewhere along the way some of the hot gas gets into that area and the hole essentially allows it to bleed out instead of sitting in there. If blocked rather than build up pressure or impede proper gas venting from the cylinder, it simply builds up much like toxic gases inside a mine or fumes from the engine of your car running in a closed garage. such build up of the gas would cause erosion of the wood or w/e material is involved here.

again i have no prior knowledge so this is just a guess, i'm curious as to whether my assumption here is correct or am i just spewing nonsense? Another factor which points me towards this conclusion is the fact that apparently no one knew for sure and that supposedly some people do block that hole, which implies that the consequences are minor or hard to attribute to the blocking of the hole by anyone who has no knowledge of it's purpose.

With all due respect... I can't let this go. This is wrong. "Vent" refers to the removal of water out of the stock. Period. There is absolutely no way gas can be "trapped" in the stock. Seriously, no way at all. The rifle stock and hand-guard offer a billion and one avenues for any (non-existent) gasses to escape. No one in this thread has explained where these mysterious gasses are originating. The gas system is air-tight, the stock is not.

There. Are. No. Gasses. Coming. Out. Of. The. Stock. Vent. Hole.

Gas is eliminated via the lower gas port which is underneath the barrel, forward of the stock. When a cartridge is fired, gasses travel down the barrel, a portion of which are redirected via the gas port in the barrel. The gas piston is fully extended (cycling the action) and any left over gas is purged via the lower gas port. The gas plug is air-tight. The stock is *not* air-tight. It would make no sense for the rifle to vent hot/toxic/whatever gasses anywhere the operator may be holding it.

See starting at 16:40:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q2QBNIK0UA#t=996s

[youtube]6Q2QBNIK0UA&start=996[/youtube]

At no point is any gas vented into the stock. This myth seriously needs to stop being perpetuated. I'm don't expect anyone to just take my word for it, but for the love of Deity of Choice please just think about it logically.

In any case, the M14 is a very elegant and well designed simple rifle (relatively). I love it. If you're interested in learning more, the (full) video link above is a great place to start. Go get some!