What is poor accuracy in a hunting rifle?
- Thread starter skhunter
- Start date
Depends heavily on your average range of shot, the size of game you are hunting, and how confident you are as a shooter.
As a general rule of thumb, I say 4MOA with irons and 2MOA with optics and you will be good to hunt anything deer sized or larger out to 300 meters.
That sounds pretty reasonable to me, well said info.
So would you use a scoped rifle that shot 4MOA. Is the difference because you wouldn't try a 300 meter shot with irons.
tylerjwitty
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northern Ontario
i wouldn't take a 2 moa rifle past 200 yards . 200 yard equals 4 inchs of rifle err with a 3x's factor for off hand and 2 x's factor for sitting . offhand i want to keep within a 8 inch circle.
- Location
- London Ontario
I would suggest it depends entirely on your range. At 100 yds having your shots within 2 inches is probably more than sufficient. If you're out further than that, those two inches become 4 or 5 inches pretty quick, and when you factor in wind, a less than perfect shooter and a moving target, you have a recipe for a wounded animal that you have to track for miles instead of a dead one at your feet.
I would have to say that the accuracy of the rifle is predetermined for the most part by the skill of the shooter. You can benhrest to see accuracy of rifle, but that will not be worth a hill of beans if you twitch and wiggle incessantly when you aim.
- Location
- Yellowknife, NWT
Having accurate rifles has raised my expectations. In the seventies, MOA rifles were fairly scarce. Now they aren't. I expect my bolt guns to shoot MOA, which they do. I expect about 1.5 MOA from a scoped lever, and 3 or so MOA from iron sights. I have one autoloader, a Rem 742 that shoots 1.5 to 2 MOA consistently, and although I expected that, still I am a bit disappointed.
I must be alot younger than yourself
but this is pretty good an something i go along the lines of.with the exception of 1 rifle, its about 2moa used for generally stalking under 100 with the handful of long-er shots on offer.... i just havnt fine tuned the setup but its been puttin them down for a while now
the rifle is capable im sure but its the reason we own several rifles for several occaisons!
I have an Ithaca LSA 65 25-06 that will take the center out of the target every time on a cold barrel...Awsome accurate for ONE shot, but won't print a tight group, no matter what recipe I mix up for it...I'm talkin 3''+ groups...It is fully free floated, and glass bedded..I equate this to its rather light barrel...I suppose I could take a half hour or better to print a nice tight group, but who really does that, and why?
Would I take this rifle hunting for shots beyond 200yds? Of course I would, and have...Weather it groups sub MOA or not, I do know where the first bullet it going...
tylerjwitty
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northern Ontario
have you tried applying forend pressure? some like some don't
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Accuracy is a funny thing as it relates to hunting. We generally measure accuracy based on the group size of so many shots fired at such and such a range, from a bench or other solid rest, but what does that tell us? Look at the groups printed by your rifle, and you'll note that the majority of the holes are near the center (if you're a competent marksman) with a few holes on the periphery of the group, yet its these peripheral shots what we measure to give us the average of the rifle/load accuracy potential, ignoring the cluster of shots nearer center. Additionally, the first two shots tend to be the most accurate from a rifle barrel, though from time to time we hear about a rifle that throws the first shot wide of the subsequent group. I've never seen a rifle that would fire a doughnut shaped group, though I've shot some that didn't instill confidence in my ability to place a first round center hit on a 12" 100 yard target, but at 50 yards it would put meat in the freezer. Groups size also neglects the concept of the distance of the point of impact from the intended aiming point, in hunting, this is the measurement that matters.
What we are talking about though isn't accuracy as much as it is maximum range. What is the maximum range at which you can hit a target of any particular size with that particular rifle load combination. Some rifles do pretty well out to a half mile or better, others aren't much good beyond 25 yards. "Oh, I wouldn't hunt with a gun like that!" you say. Well, what does it take to hit the foot wide vital area of a big game animal in heavy cover? If your smoke stick printed 6" at 50 yards, but you encountered a buck at 20, why wouldn't you shoot? Besides, that first shot has as good a chance of landing right on your point of aim, as it does of landing 3" away.
Now add to the accuracy issue field marksmanship. This is far more critical than is a rifle/load's intrinsic accuracy, but it can be effected by such things as our level of exertion, our level of excitement and our ability to control it, the bulk of our clothing, and the temperature we're exposed to. If you're hunting at -30, have you been out shooting to see if you can hit anything . . . at any distance? Weather is perhaps the greatest challenge to field marksmanship. Wind shifts the bullet from its intended flight path, mirage blurs the image and displaces the target, rain, fog, and snow limit visibility, and temperature changes air density and determines how we must dress, which in turn effects how the rifle fits us.
I own some reasonably accurate hunting rifles. I've fired some groups that cause me to puff out my chest and strut around like a peacock for a day or two, but I've also made some shots in the field that would make a rank novice hang his head in shame. If I can take credit for the former, then I have to accept the blame for the latter, the real question is what to do about it. One answer might be as follows. On the range you can fire two shot groups from field positions, but ideally, go shooting in your hunting area prior top the season opening. Put out targets along a trail, that replicate how you might encounter game. Then walk the trail with your rifle, and see how you do on each target. Some some force you to shoot off hand, some should force you to shoot prone, some should provide a natural rest while others won't, some targets should be passed up due to range or an inability to identify or ensure a solid hit. Allow a fixed period of time to run the course. Hits count as 2, misses -5, no shot taken = 0, and a 2 point penalty for each minute over the nominal course time. This will teach you much more about field marksmanship then shooting groups will.
What we are talking about though isn't accuracy as much as it is maximum range. What is the maximum range at which you can hit a target of any particular size with that particular rifle load combination. Some rifles do pretty well out to a half mile or better, others aren't much good beyond 25 yards. "Oh, I wouldn't hunt with a gun like that!" you say. Well, what does it take to hit the foot wide vital area of a big game animal in heavy cover? If your smoke stick printed 6" at 50 yards, but you encountered a buck at 20, why wouldn't you shoot? Besides, that first shot has as good a chance of landing right on your point of aim, as it does of landing 3" away.
Now add to the accuracy issue field marksmanship. This is far more critical than is a rifle/load's intrinsic accuracy, but it can be effected by such things as our level of exertion, our level of excitement and our ability to control it, the bulk of our clothing, and the temperature we're exposed to. If you're hunting at -30, have you been out shooting to see if you can hit anything . . . at any distance? Weather is perhaps the greatest challenge to field marksmanship. Wind shifts the bullet from its intended flight path, mirage blurs the image and displaces the target, rain, fog, and snow limit visibility, and temperature changes air density and determines how we must dress, which in turn effects how the rifle fits us.
I own some reasonably accurate hunting rifles. I've fired some groups that cause me to puff out my chest and strut around like a peacock for a day or two, but I've also made some shots in the field that would make a rank novice hang his head in shame. If I can take credit for the former, then I have to accept the blame for the latter, the real question is what to do about it. One answer might be as follows. On the range you can fire two shot groups from field positions, but ideally, go shooting in your hunting area prior top the season opening. Put out targets along a trail, that replicate how you might encounter game. Then walk the trail with your rifle, and see how you do on each target. Some some force you to shoot off hand, some should force you to shoot prone, some should provide a natural rest while others won't, some targets should be passed up due to range or an inability to identify or ensure a solid hit. Allow a fixed period of time to run the course. Hits count as 2, misses -5, no shot taken = 0, and a 2 point penalty for each minute over the nominal course time. This will teach you much more about field marksmanship then shooting groups will.
I went hunting the other day with a rifle that shot "minute of termite mound" at 50 yards. It was a real small mound though, and the 4 shot group was shot offhand.
Lots depends on the application. For many uses that wouldn't be worth a steaming pile of dog dung, for others it is more than good enough.
Lots depends on the application. For many uses that wouldn't be worth a steaming pile of dog dung, for others it is more than good enough.
When hunting, knowing where the clean cold bore shot will impact would seem most important as has already been mentioned.
Tracking and shooting multiple targets quickly like hogs, yotes or culling is what comes to mind concerning anything after CCB and where the POI changes relative to the CCB.
Tracking and shooting multiple targets quickly like hogs, yotes or culling is what comes to mind concerning anything after CCB and where the POI changes relative to the CCB.
Pathfinder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northeast Ontario
yeah, maybe the 25-06 heats it up fast to where the groups open up fast. My LSA 65 is in 6.5x55 and I can put 3 140's inside of an inch but then again they are only moving 2700-2800 fps max.
If the first shot goes where it needs to go consistently then that sounds good. Expectations for a varmint rifle on gopher patch would be higher...all depends on the application.
Another way to look at it is "how far from your POA is your POI?"
A few years ago we were having a discussion on the issues of handgun hunting. One of the issues brought up by Foxer was that handguns were too inaccurate to be used for hunting.
I recall going out and shooting a 6 shot group at 50 yards. I'm not a great handgun shooter, so the group was about 6" when measured traditionally. But all the bullets landed within 3" from POA whether they were left, right, up or down. The kill zone on a deer is larger than 6" in diameter!
Foxer said "That's a 6" group, not accurate enough for hunting"
I said "Any of those shots will kill a deer at 50 yards"
So you can look at it from a bench rest accuracy point of view or look at it as common sense. If your rifle puts all the bullets within 3" either side of POA at 300 yards, it's a 2MOA shooter, but it will also still kill the deer.
A few years ago we were having a discussion on the issues of handgun hunting. One of the issues brought up by Foxer was that handguns were too inaccurate to be used for hunting.
I recall going out and shooting a 6 shot group at 50 yards. I'm not a great handgun shooter, so the group was about 6" when measured traditionally. But all the bullets landed within 3" from POA whether they were left, right, up or down. The kill zone on a deer is larger than 6" in diameter!
Foxer said "That's a 6" group, not accurate enough for hunting"
I said "Any of those shots will kill a deer at 50 yards"
So you can look at it from a bench rest accuracy point of view or look at it as common sense. If your rifle puts all the bullets within 3" either side of POA at 300 yards, it's a 2MOA shooter, but it will also still kill the deer.
That right there is worth repeating.
