Should there be more prone or kneeling shooting in IPSC?
- Thread starter Crosswind
- Start date
Rob IDPA stages requiring prone or kneeling positions by convention come at the end of the stage. This is to take into account those with less athletic agility then others, afterall it is a shooting sport not a track and field event. IPSC stage designors ahould be able to design stages with prone and kneeling positions coming at the end of a stage. If I remember correctly Pr. Rupert managed it a few years ago. We shot the last few targets from a kneeling posisiton. I don't recallhaving to go prone in an IPSC event.
Take Care
Bob
Many people are forgetting that IPSC is a sport. You can't be strong without training. Making easy stages for people who don't bother with physical training doesn't do anything good for the sport.
True....but Power SPeed Accuracy does not refer to foot work or lack there of...it is supposed to be about firearms usage. That being said..stages get awfully boring without movement or gaming it. I think a good blend is what is required.
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I forced prone in the last IPSC match I MD'd.
I also forced a 40 yard shot. And lots of running.
This is one stage of 5. The others were a lot smaller in size (not necessarily less movement), and tested different skills. One stage in particular had more options than there were shooters.
First video is of the prone-40yard stage. Second is one with lots of movement and is more "technical". Starting in a outhouse, holding toilet paper
Thanks to Contondant for the awesome video!
I also forced a 40 yard shot. And lots of running.
This is one stage of 5. The others were a lot smaller in size (not necessarily less movement), and tested different skills. One stage in particular had more options than there were shooters.
First video is of the prone-40yard stage. Second is one with lots of movement and is more "technical". Starting in a outhouse, holding toilet paper
Thanks to Contondant for the awesome video!
You also have to know your audience. IPSC, like all other sports is in the entertainment business. Turn IPSC into a foot race and the only thing faster than the young turks will be the over 40 crowd leaving the sport. As others have pointed out, what you need is a blend.
Take Care
Bob
This isn't IDPA, we aren't required, nor do I think we should be, buildings stages to the lowest common denominator. There is no such thing as equitable in real life, why should there be in IPSC? Or IDPA for that matter? The old, slow and injured guys aren't going to be competitive regardless of the stage compared to the young fit guys. So why penalize those fast guys? There is nothing wrong or unfair with putting kneeling or pro en anywhere in a stage. Just shoot it.
No they won't, they just will only be competitive with others of similar physical ability and shooting ability. Having easy stages all the time doesn't benefit anyone. It doesn't make people try harder, it doesn't add a challenge. If people want easy shooting sports they can do PPC or ISU Olympic style shooting. (and by easy I mean lack of physical challenges). Our sports has already been watered down as the founders of the sport aged and designed stages and made rules that benefitted them and their physical ability. Seldom do we see Cooper Tunnels, low ports, scaling walls. No more tired runs, rope swings, vaults, low walls. Laaaammmmmeeee
Agreed. Again, with a balance to accommodate who are actual members are..Not every stage to be extreme fitness challenge, and not every stage to be really easy either... BALANCE. It's not a pro sport paying out Millions to the winner like PGA or NHL, NBA, ETC.. I'm sure all countries are similar to ours where a good mix of folks like to enjoy this sport..
Those who choose to keep well fit so they do perform better and win... Great too and all the power to them...
heavenIsAlie
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- Abbotsford
i want lots of prone and lots of kneeling!
Rob IDPA doesn't require building stages to the lowest common denominator as you suggest but we do want the sport to be a shooting sport and be a fair test for all competitors as I suspect we do in IPSC. Building stages that only the fittest can shoot is just another way of pre-determing the winner. Building stages that test ones shooting ability makes it fair for all. I want to see the best shooters win not the guys who can crawl the fastest or climb walls the best. Col Cooper left the sport when it became exacly what you seem to want, back in the day. IPSC since has returned to it's roots and seems to me to be the better for it.
Having a shooter go prone to shoot targets at the end of a stage rather than at the start does't change the challenge of shooting prone but it does accomodate a shooter with a bad knee and can't get up quickly yet has no material effect on the shooter with a fit knee, the best shooter wins and it might just be the guy/gal with the bad knee.
Take Care
Bob
The way it usually works out Bob is the guys who an run but not shoot want lots of running and jumping jacks, but no hard shots, the guys that can shoot but not run want almost everything from standing and not much movement but harder shots....and the guys that will win are those that can both run and shoot.
Is IPSC a sport or is it merely a pastime, a hobby, a recreation or a divertissement ?? The [summer] Olympics (God forgive me) which recognizes synchronized swimming as a sport does not recognize IPSC as a sport. It does recognize 19 other target sports but does not recognize IPSC. So much for IPSC being a sport.
No amount of physical training is going to fix osteo arthritis or compressed disks or any number of other conditions plaguing many older devotees. The good they do for IPSC is paying to attend matches at which they can enjoy themselves whilst competing at some level. Matches designed solely for the fit young, athletic and driven to win shooters will not make a lot of money for the hosting clubs.
heavenIsAlie
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Abbotsford
the only problem with that logic is when you look at 3 gun, it is growing much faster than all the other pistol sports, the matches have very high entry fees and yet still fill up super fast. AND 3-gun is full of prone and kneeling and weird positions which you are saying alienates more shooters than it attracts
Cooper left more over equipment, not stages. Watch old video of the matches from the 70s and 80s,lots of hard shots, lots of weird positions and props. It's a dumbed down version now. I'd love to see more physical challenges that are related to shooting. I'm not talking about stabbing swords through little holes or threading needles, but stuff that is practical. That would include prone, kneeling, stairs, walls, obstacles etc. Along with a variety of targets. I say that knowing that with two bad knees, a lot of extra weight and a variety of other ills, that a younger vaster shooter will probably be at me. I'm fine with that and it doesn't bother me in the least.
I can't agree more with Slavex.
I have never hear young guy complaining about going low, most of complains come from older shooters who are out of shape with bad knees and other problems. I am not young myself and don't like going down or twist myself too much but always welcome that kind of challenge when is distributed evenly for everyone.
I have never hear young guy complaining about going low, most of complains come from older shooters who are out of shape with bad knees and other problems. I am not young myself and don't like going down or twist myself too much but always welcome that kind of challenge when is distributed evenly for everyone.
