Should there be more prone or kneeling shooting in IPSC?

[Unregistered_]

Is IPSC a sport or is it merely a pastime, a hobby, a recreation or a divertissement ?? The [summer] Olympics (God forgive me) which recognizes synchronized swimming as a sport does not recognize IPSC as a sport. It does recognize 19 other target sports but does not recognize IPSC. So much for IPSC being a sport.

I don't rely on the IOC to define what a sport is. Nor do I rely on ESPN (otherwise poker would be a sport) or any other such entities.

I would dare say most here consider IPSC a sport.

 

[arancio]

the only problem with that logic is when you look at 3 gun, it is growing much faster than all the other pistol sports, the matches have very high entry fees and yet still fill up super fast. AND 3-gun is full of prone and kneeling and weird positions which you are saying alienates more shooters than it attracts

In ON that means one or two a year and they are not IPSC.

 

[arancio]

I don't rely on the IOC to define what a sport is. Nor do I rely on ESPN (otherwise poker would be a sport) or any other such entities.

I would dare say most here consider IPSC a sport.

The guys that fly model planes consider that a sport as well.

 

[Danimal247]

I agree! The more complex the more exciting for me.

3 gun is the most appealing personally, but there's not many matches going on to fill my shooting void

Cooper left more over equipment, not stages. Watch old video of the matches from the 70s and 80s,lots of hard shots, lots of weird positions and props. It's a dumbed down version now. I'd love to see more physical challenges that are related to shooting. I'm not talking about stabbing swords through little holes or threading needles, but stuff that is practical. That would include prone, kneeling, stairs, walls, obstacles etc. Along with a variety of targets. I say that knowing that with two bad knees, a lot of extra weight and a variety of other ills, that a younger vaster shooter will probably be at me. I'm fine with that and it doesn't bother me in the least.

 

[arancio]

I can't agree more with Slavex.
I have never hear young guy complaining about going low, most of complains come from older shooters who are out of shape with bad knees and other problems. I am not young myself and don't like going down or twist myself too much but always welcome that kind of challenge when is distributed evenly for everyone.

Peter; you're a youngster and older shooters make up a large percentage of active shooters.

 

[Slavex]

If only 3 gun was pistol, rifle, carbine. Watching shotgun stages (at least one requiring a reload) is almost too painful for me to watch.

Ok there is some sarcasm there.

I understand where guys like Bob are coming from, but the future of our sport is the young guys, and they need to be challenged, let the match designers make the matches and people vote with their wallets. I know the matches I go to in Europe are well attended by older, rickety shooters and they don't complain about the physically tough stages, they just shoot them.

 

[maurice]

there is always Biathalons....

 

[arancio]

If only 3 gun was pistol, rifle, carbine. Watching shotgun stages (at least one requiring a reload) is almost too painful for me to watch.

Ok there is some sarcasm there.

I understand where guys like Bob are coming from, but the future of our sport is the young guys, and they need to be challenged, let the match designers make the matches and people vote with their wallets. I know the matches I go to in Europe are well attended by older, rickety shooters and they don't complain about the physically tough stages, they just shoot them.

I don't complain about physically tough stages at the time but my knees do when I get home. Although, I do hate laying in the dirt trying to find targets through a 6" high port.

 

[arancio]

there is always Biathalons....

Is that like some kind of two gun match ??

 

[PeterPan]

Thanks for the complement but I am not a young shooter by a mile. This is not an issue though. If the stage is so physically demanding for anyone to complete, they shoot approach RM and ask to take 20% of the score and shoot without bending or going down. I don't want to sound like I am a promoter of crazy IPSC splits and gymnastic tricks, but it is there for us to use it. I regret, that we only learn about it at certain matches and then it becomes and issue. Another beauty of the IPSC is able to compete within its own age class.

 

[Canuck44]

If only 3 gun was pistol, rifle, carbine. Watching shotgun stages (at least one requiring a reload) is almost too painful for me to watch.

Ok there is some sarcasm there.

I understand where guys like Bob are coming from, but the future of our sport is the young guys, and they need to be challenged, let the match designers make the matches and people vote with their wallets. I know the matches I go to in Europe are well attended by older, rickety shooters and they don't complain about the physically tough stages, they just shoot them.

Rob I have it on very good autority the average stay in USPSA runs approx. 2.5 years from the time an individual joins and the time they move on to something else. Not sure what the turnover rate is for either IDPA or IPSC but I suspect a similar pattern. As to who is the target market for IPSC I would suggest to you it is guys/gals in their mid 30's and up with sufficient disposable income and time to participate in the sport. None of the shooting sports are inexpensive even at the entry level and family demands change very quickly. Competition for the over 30 sucessful types comes in the form of golf, running, hiking etc to name a few. Like I said we are in the entertainment business. If it ain't entertaining folks won't stay. I am not active in designing stages for IPSC but I am for IDPA and my first concern is for our Novice/Marksman/Sharpshooter(IPSC B,C,D,) participants who make up the bulk of our members. The top shooter will play and win no matter how difficult the stages are but the stages must be entertaing for the bulk of the shooters. Difficult yes but not unshootable.

To those with bad knees IDPA does accomodate those by allowing them to accept a 3 second penalty and they engage the targets standing. I am sure at most IPSC club matches the same accomodation would be made.

As to Europe I think you might agree shooting is more an elitist sport than on this side of the pond, at least it is for IDPA from what I have been told.. Hence the old, but wealthy rickety types (your words not mine).

Take Care

Bob

 

[hungrybeagle]

I love stages that include a prone position. However, I do recognize that range conditions can dictate how much fun a prone position really is. Many times, I've seen stages where a prone position would be advantageous, but the shooting all occurs from a "box" where going prone would cause inadvertent foot faults. Other times, the range conditions are dirt floors, and when we have our pretty, colourful shooting shirts, nobody likes getting it dirty (at least, I don't).

 

[RUPZUK]

Prone can be a bit tricky, weather wise...
I think changing up shooting positions is a good thing but coarse designers should take extra measures if they are going to use them.
A clean sheet of plywood to lay on and a 10x10 tent over it would keep 90% of the complaints away I think.

 

[Unregistered_]

Prone can be a bit tricky, weather wise...
I think changing up shooting positions is a good thing but coarse designers should take extra measures if they are going to use them.
A clean sheet of plywood to lay on and a 10x10 tent over it would keep 90% of the complaints away I think.

That's why I even put out a foam crash mat, and one of the guys working the stage always had a broom on him to brush off the dirt!

I'm too nice.

 

[arancio]

I shot a prone stage once where the platform was covered and about 30 inches off the ground. Not only that but the shooters went prone on a tumbling mat. Pure luxury.