22LR AR15 "Trainers" ?

I have the CMMG drop in parkerized BCG in my AR. It does have the BHO function if you get the new Black Dog 26 rounders from Questar. It never fed properly with the older BD 10 rounders but now feeds alot better. I shoot plated MiniMags to keep leading to a minimum.

The only problem I have now is it will sometimes fail to go into battery when dirty. You have to push the bolt into battery with your finger as the forward assist function does not work with this kit.
 
I speced my CMMG upper with the help of a member on AR15.com who is a field tester for CMMG. He always recommend the stainless upgrade of the CMMG conversion. He says the SS version is stronger and easier to clean. This pays off as the .22 is a "dirty" round. Also the newer, higher end CMMG units use their "Evolution" design mags which are much improved. They work with the Bolt Hold Open Adapter option. From the reading I have done on forums with a large rimfire membership, the higher- end CMMG conversions are a good value and worth the extra cost if you shoot a higher volume or with more intensity than casual plinking. I will be training and competing with my upper in Steel Challenge and so the extra cost was warranted. YMMV.




Glenzo said:
I have the CMMG drop in parkerized BCG in my AR. It does have the BHO function if you get the new Black Dog 26 rounders from Questar. It never fed properly with the older BD 10 rounders but now feeds alot better. I shoot plated MiniMags to keep leading to a minimum.

The only problem I have now is it will sometimes fail to go into battery when dirty. You have to push the bolt into battery with your finger as the forward assist function does not work with this kit.
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Will the 22LR mags survive being dropped?

I am working on getting into more AR games and a rimfire practise rig sure sounds interesting BUT if the mags fill with dirt and/or break if dropped, that is a non starter for me.

Jerry
 
I purchased three of the new Evolution magazines when I ordered my CMMG upper. I'll be using them all winter in Steel Challenge and Carbine matches in Texas. I don't see why they would be any more susceptible to dirt than any other magazine. They are made of high strength polymer and should be reasonably durable. Dropping them on concrete floors might be an issue but I expect that all of my shooting will be outdoors. I'll report in the spring regarding the upper and the magazines after a few months use.




Mystic Precision said:
Will the 22LR mags survive being dropped?

I am working on getting into more AR games and a rimfire practise rig sure sounds interesting BUT if the mags fill with dirt and/or break if dropped, that is a non starter for me.

Jerry
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The older CMMG BHO mags are a little finickier to get adjusted properly in terms of activating the BHO open on last round. Out of all my mags, 25% hold open every time, 25% hold open when they feel like it, and the other 50% don't hold open at all.

I just acquired a new CMMG evolution SS kit with FA, and BHO. I've been running one of the older BHO kits and mags for the past year. The new CMMG Steel Feed Lip Evolution mags are incredibly reliable in terms of feeding and holding Bolt Open on the last round. They just work every time no adjustments necessary.

Compared to the older generation of BHO mags the new ones are definately the way to go.

As for forward assist, I used mine quite a bit when the units are breaking in. Some ammo just doesnt' feed properly, and some times if it's a little dirty, it's nice to be able to hit the FA and drive the round home.

I've played with an M&P and I liked it, but now that I have the bugs worked out of my two CMMG setups, there is no way I would look at anything different.
 
Mystic Precision said:
Will the 22LR mags survive being dropped?

I am working on getting into more AR games and a rimfire practise rig sure sounds interesting BUT if the mags fill with dirt and/or break if dropped, that is a non starter for me.

Jerry
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Yes... The 22LR mags from CMMG will survive being dropped. I would actually say the CMMG mags hold up better than the metal AR-15 mags I've had. BUT I've had some bad luck with the Gen1 BDM mags being dropped over and over (cracked feedlips).

As for dirt... If they get FILLED with dirt, they wont work. But, neither will just about any other mag i've seen.

If it just gets some dirt in there... its not a big deal.

Dirt + rain is not normally a problem, but dirt + a nice dunk in water can be (dirt + too much water = mud = problem).

As for cleaning them... if they stop working because of a bunch of dirt/carbon I take the base plate off and run some water and dish soap through the mag.
 
Here is an interesting post by Larry Vickers on M4Carbine.net forum regarding 22 trainers:

Larry Vickers said:
I have given this a lot of thought - in my opinion 22 LR AR style platforms offer limited value - at first glance they look like they would be a great training aid but when you add weapon unreliability to the issue of less recoil and muzzle blast then frankly they don't offer a lot of value over dry fire

Truth be told you could do dry fire manipulations and only fire live rounds in 5.56mm when you need to and bypass the 22LR option altogether

Obviously I'm not the only one to figure this out because serious widespread use of 22LR trainers is virtually non existant

Basically they are fun plinker and perfect as a first AR for kids
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I certainly respect his opinion, but in this case I'm not sure I agree with him. At this point I am trying to focus more on movement and learning to drive the rifle from target to target. Our mag restrictions make some (most) rifle drills impossible. I'm interested in trying VTAC triple threat drills, 2x2x2, 1-5 drills. I just can do most of them with neutered mags let alone expensive ammo. Sure muzzle blast and recoil are different, but trigger manipulation and movement are much harder to practice when dry firing. Maybe the attractiveness of a 22lr AR is a Canadian thing, I dunno.
 
I've tried a S&W .22 AR and found it felt light which coupled with the lack of recoil, made for a "light" experience. That's one of the reasons I opted for a dedicated .22 upper. I'm in the process of configuring both of my uppers. They will have the same sights, hand guard and general layout and of course use the same lower which will have a Geissele 3G trigger group. I expect the weight will be very close and .22 magazine capacities will make the drills referred to doable. The recoil and blast factors can't be denied however the overall shooting experience should be closer.
 
Clobbersauras...I haven't gone through all the comments but have you considered a PWS Diablo in 7.62x39? Uses the same 10 round mags as their pistols.
My friend uses his Diablo more than his LMT AR. No issues encountered.
 
I thought feeding was a problem with 7.62x39 AR15's? Corrosive 7.62 is still 3-4x more expensive than .22 lr, but the recoil will be realistic
 
johNTO said:
Clobbersauras...I haven't gone through all the comments but have you considered a PWS Diablo in 7.62x39? Uses the same 10 round mags as their pistols.
My friend uses his Diablo more than his LMT AR. No issues encountered.
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I have lusted after the Diablo for a while. The problem with them is reliable full size mags (or so I've read). Also, some of the drills I want to run require more than ten rounds; VTAC triple threat, 1-5, etc. I was sold on the M&P 15-22 but I'm sure I wouldn't be happy with the 10 round mags just for that reason. Soooo, now I'm looking into the BHO CMMG kits. If I can get one working properly, I think that may be the ticket. I need another 10" upper though....
 
Clobbersauras said:
*snip* Also, some of the drills I want to run require more than ten rounds; VTAC triple threat, 1-5, etc. I was sold on the M&P 15-22 but I'm sure I wouldn't be happy with the 10 round mags just for that reason. Soooo, now I'm looking into the BHO CMMG kits. If I can get one working properly, I think that may be the ticket. I need another 10" upper though....
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Only the S&W brand mags are limited to 10rnds. Aftermarket mags are not neutered. BDM also has drum mags that actually work......

I have 6-25 rnd BDM mags as well as 2-50rnd drums (actually I already owned the drums I just ordered new towers to fit the 15-22) for mine, curiously enough, when I ordered my BDM mags they were $2 less than factory S&W mags......

Cheers!
 
notsorichguy said:
Only the S&W brand mags are limited to 10rnds. Aftermarket mags are not neutered. BDM also has drum mags that actually work......

I have 6-25 rnd BDM mags as well as 2-50rnd drums (actually I already owned the drums I just ordered new towers to fit the 15-22) for mine, curiously enough, when I ordered my BDM mags they were $2 less than factory S&W mags......

Cheers!
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WAIT, there are 25 round mp15-22 mags available again???!?!?!??!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Clobbersauras said:
I was sold on the M&P 15-22 but I'm sure I wouldn't be happy with the 10 round mags just for that reason. Soooo, now I'm looking into the BHO CMMG kits. If I can get one working properly, I think that may be the ticket. I need another 10" upper though....
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I used a pre-BHO CMMG stainless kit with 25rnd Black Dog mags on my AR. Before I even fired a single shot I wet sanded the two guide rails with a fine grade sandpaper until it was polished. The kit ran great with very light oil on the rails.
It ate CCI Blazer bulk (500) but didn't like feeding hollow points. Also, remember to clean your gas tube after ~ 300-400rnds.
 
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