Looking to spend 3k on an ar, what would you buy....

[c0ntract]

I'm curious to konw if this logical approach also applies for everything else?

Trucks?
Kithchen appliances?
ATVs?
Shop Yools?
TVs and Surround sound amplifiers?
Guitars and amps?

If the guy wants to spent up to $3k just for the AR, perhaps he's got 2x the toy-spending money then most other guys do?

Furthermore, how can you assume he hasn't been shooting a NR black rifle for the last 5 years and he's now looking for a range-queen, er an AR?

Perhaps he's been in the long range precision shooting scene for a while and knows that a certain level quality and reliability comes at a certain price point? Perhaps he also understands that resale value of mid to higher-end rifles is better than entry level rifles?

Are you telling us that if you'd get a free $3K shopping gift JUST for a rifle that you wouldn't spend it on the higher-end products? I'd find that hard to believe.

Are you saying value and quality are determined by price? I would strongly disagree with you as there are TONS of over priced products on the market. Look at Sony, Apple, Lexus, Armani Exchange, Luminox...

Your points are fundamentally wrong to begin with because your comparing products that can be completely different IE comparing a Ford to a Toyota, they might have the same purpose (transportation) but they can be completely different mechanically IE you can't put an alternator or water pump from a ford into a Toyota or vice versa. The Norc is mechanically&functionally identical in operation to all the other DI AR's on the market. It might not have the features or alloy coatings or fancy dimpled barrels, but it is identical in the way that it functions, it's design and it is compatible. I can put a DD/LMT/Noveske upper on a Norc lower, drop in a Giselle trigger, swap in a Spikes FA BCG, put on a Magpul stock and those parts will all fit and function fine in the norc while still being interchangeable with a Tier 1 gun so long as it is not some proprietary design.

As for you get what you pay for... well cell phones are a good way to illustrate how that is false. For example the iphone 5 performance specs put it below the specs of much more affordable android phones, yet Apple can command a premium and maintain a strangle hold on the cell phone markets with its sales. The fact that the Iphone is trendy and retails for a premium, doesn't mean that a lower costing Samsung phone can't outperform it or be more reliable.

The arguments about the Norc's on here baffle me sometimes. Some of the most knowledgeable people have attested that the norinco is a reliable and quality firearm, yet others will retort with euphemisms like "you get what you pay for"/"can't bet your life on it", or even nonsense like claiming they are pot metal, "barn spec" or other nonsense.

When it comes down to it, the Norinco is two things 1) low cost 2) an AR.

When it comes down to it HK/KAC are 1) feature ridden 2) expensive 3) an AR.

If you have $3K to spend on a gun, go for it! It is awesome to have nice things. If you want a HK/KAC/Noveske, go for it they are beautiful guns, but tell it like it is, your buying it because that is what you want not because your going to see a giant leap in performance shooting paper on a one way range. Buying an expensive gun because you want it and you can afford it is fine, there is nothing wrong with that, I wish people would stop pretending like their is.

 

[Recce21]

Buying an expensive gun because you want it and you can afford it is fine, there is nothing wrong with that, I wish people would stop pretending like their is.

Yup.

 

[Epoxy7]

The Norc solution isn't a good answer in this case. The Norc will do everything and it's cost effective but when someone asks about high end AR rifles it's not applicable. This is more like which sports car should I buy for $. Some of you guys are replying he should get a Civic and learn how to drive. When the guy/gal is looking at buying a Corvette or higher. Sorry but the Civic isn't going to cut it. Even taking performance out of the equation, the more expensive sports cars look nice in your garage, on your driveway and when out and about. The Civic is still a Civic even if you add 20K to it. The same with firearms. High end firearms are almost a work of art. Pride of ownership is also a factor not just function.

 

[c0ntract]

The Norc solution isn't a good answer in this case. The Norc will do everything and it's cost effective but when someone asks about high end AR rifles it's not applicable. This is more like which sports car should I buy for $. Some of you guys are replying he should get a Civic and learn how to drive. When the guy/gal is looking at buying a Corvette or higher. Sorry but the Civic isn't going to cut it. Even taking performance out of the equation, the more expensive sports cars look nice in your garage, on your driveway and when out and about. The Civic is still a Civic even if you add 20K to it. The same with firearms. High end firearms are almost a work of art. Pride of ownership is also a factor not just function.

Car examples don't translate in this debate unless you are comparing the exact same car with the exact same mechanical properties. It is more comparable to the difference between getting a basic Corvette and getting a Corvette with metallic paint, HID lights, upgraded stereo and leather interior.

There is a gigantic difference between a civic and a ferrari, one is a fwd, 4 cyl, four door econo rental ####box the ferrari is a F1 inspired, cutting edge, rwd v12 street legal race car. Your car example of a civic vs a vette is more in tune with comparing a ruger 10/22 to a competition tuned AR from a tier 1 manufacturer.

Furthermore what performance gain will he see shooting a comparable Tier 1 gun to a comparable Norc?

I agree with you saying if he wants a $3K AR to buy one and advise him towards that. If the criteria and purchasing decision is based on price then for sure buy a $3K AR...The only thing I will point out is that he didn't specify what he wanted it for... perhaps it will be a safe queen, or a discussion piece or maybe he might beat the living hell out of it and run it in competitions. If the only criteria is that he wants a $3K gun, then sure list everything in that price range, but why exclude the option of buying a comparable product that is significantly cheaper that allows him to outfit it with the best optics/mags/accessories and a few crates of ammo for the same price?.

My only point was that you can't claim that two identical products are not equal in performance when the only difference between them on paper is features as opposed to significant design variations that offer a tangible and measurable impact on performance.

If you want a $3K gun, go for it. I don't care what peoples reasons are, if they saw it in a movie or a magazine, if they bought it because it was cheap or expensive, if it is because that gun is the same one that the SEALs use or Chris Costa carries, those are all valid reasons in my books. I don't judge, I think it is awesome that people love their hobby that much that they are willing to invest $$$ into it. Hell the fact that you want it is a good enough reason.

After meeting countless shooters and trolling this website I have come to the conclusion that not everyone buys a gun to shoot or compete. Some people buy them to collect, some buy out of interest, some people love to build guns and sell them after, some buy extremely expensive kit just because they like it even if they are not an doorkicking/JTF2/eliteoperator. At the end of the day if your happy with whats in your safe, that is all that matters.

If the OP just wants an expensive AR, there are tons of options out there, I am guessing that you will be happy with any of them.

 

[Epoxy7]

Car examples don't translate in this debate unless you are comparing the exact same car with the exact same mechanical properties. It is more comparable to the difference between getting a basic Corvette and getting a Corvette with metallic paint, HID lights, upgraded stereo and leather interior.

No it's not. See below.

Furthermore what performance gain will he see shooting a comparable Tier 1 gun to a comparable Norc?

First better build and finish. Parts that are tested so you know they will stand up to high round counts before they ship. Free float railed handguards, better more accurate and longer lasting barrels, improved triggers, quick release points for slings, In some cases lighter weight and or better balance while still having rails. Ambi controls on some. Improved modifications to the bolt design on others. Better stocks and grips generally come with the high end stuff.

My only point was that you can't claim that two identical products are not equal in performance when the only difference between them on paper is features as opposed to significant design variations that offer a tangible and measurable impact on performance.

The 3K rifles do offer significant variations that offer a measurable impact on performance. The SS barrels on the Noveske, or the ones on the LMT. The KAC also has SS options. The CL barrels are also higher quality than standard on these upper models. The monolithic rail of the LMT, the weight and balance of the KAC along with ambi controls. Like my previous analogy you can take that Norc and dress it up to these specs (providing the parts fit) but you still have a Norc. IE you still have the CIVIC even if it can perform with a higher end sports car. Personally I'd rather have the nicer car to begin with.

After meeting countless shooters and trolling this website I have come to the conclusion that not everyone buys a gun to shoot or compete. Some people buy them to collect, some buy out of interest, some people love to build guns and sell them after, some buy extremely expensive kit just because they like it even if they are not an doorkicking/JTF2/eliteoperator. At the end of the day if your happy with whats in your safe, that is all that matters.

If the OP just wants an expensive AR, there are tons of options out there, I am guessing that you will be happy with any of them.

Yup tons of options. Keep on mind though too many get caught up on the cost. The OP has a maximum price point and from what I can see is looking for the cons/pros of each up to that price level. So higher end. Not just price. Too many get caught up on the price rather than why the person is looking at that price point. Simply they want the best they can afford. Which is generally a good policy for purchases.

 

[BenL]

Epoxy7 - you're starting to make too much sense now.

 

[Ryan500]

Thanks for all the input guys, and the comedy. It's will be a KAC SR-15 for me.

 

[Clubhopper]

^go buy one in FDE...brown rifle wut wut, a dealer here has them in stock.

 

[lonedrone]

^^ You won't be disappointed - the KAC is a quality piece.
If you are looking for an optic, I would suggest an Elcan Spectre DR - great glass and very versatile. I absolutely love mine.

lonedrone

 

[fireball]

KAC? That doesn't leave much for strippers.

 

[Epoxy7]

KAC? That doesn't leave much for strippers.

Ya, there better be some left over for beer goggles because you'd have to hit the Z circuit locations. When I say beer we're talking about Sherry 74, or more likely Iso gel hand sanitizer. Even scope would be too much.

 

[Recce21]

Thanks for all the input guys, and the comedy. It's will be a KAC SR-15 for me.

Smart man! Must be an Albertan thing