The present trend of ultra long range hunting/shooting

I agree with you, bearkilr. That was the author's point, and IMHO, he nailed it. The joys of hunting, if they can be put into words, are about getting outdoors, trying to understand and appreciate the natural world by immersing yourself in it. Like reading a book, its not about skipping to the last paragraph and then claiming to have read the book.

IMO shooting an animal 4-500+ yards away requires ZERO hunting skills.

play the wind so you don't get winded? not necessary
calls and/or scent to lure the critter within range? if i can see it i'm shooting
scouting to find bedding areas, trails, funnels? no, i think i'll sit on the top of this hill and look a mile each way instead


i'm all for sticking together as hunters, but these guys don't fall under that category...
 
Well guys, believe it or don't, I would have a hard time buying it myself if I hadnt seen it. And it wasnt a one off thing, I saw him make shots like that many times. Never said it wasnt rare, but there are people that can do it. He also had a trophy for 500 straight shooting handicap trap. He WAS that good. Too bad it didnt rub off on me :(
 
The old boy use to pull some remarkable shots.
Chukars were his favorite.
The old A-5 would bark at least twice before I got mine
pointed in the right direction.
"What yu wait'in for bouy?"
"Just watch'in you for some tips pah."
One thing I must say though, him and a couple others
I know seem to know where the critters are going to be
even before the critter's think they are.
Just a keen knack of sense and the eyes that go with it.
I have nothing but admiration for these gifted souls.
 
Article is ridiculous with so many other analogies that could be made against types of hunting that is not "fair" or "ethical" in the eyes of somebody else....I have access to more long range rifles than most and I choose to hunt with an old short barreled M15STS in 308 out of a treestand in the bush....Sitting in a tree is so unfair...lol...
 
I've seen the same thing at the range, but most often is the "once a year zero your rifle" guy with a 30-06 who flings a few bullets at the 100 yard range, hits 4 out of 5 shots somewhere on the target, and proclaims that "it's good enough for hunting and I got 15 more bullets!"

Lol...I saw that guy at the range this fall!
 
I am not a fan of long range shots at game animals, because a much larger percentage of the animals hit at long range are lost and wasted or wounded and left in pain. Plain and simple.

If someone wants to spend their hunting time fiddling with technology and enjoys range finders, target turrets, ballistics charts, wind meters, tuning loads for sub MOA, magnum cartridges, muzzle brakes, bipods, etc. etc, they should do that! I do some of the same and thoroughly enjoy the techno - geek approach to a lot of my shooting.

BUT animals are living breathing creatures and this IS a discussion about ethics, which makes far too many hunters uncomfortable. That is kinda sad in my opinion. Ethics are important! They are a big part of what makes us human, and the values that we uphold as hunters really do matter to our own self worth and to society. I think this discussion really comes down to a culture of entitlement that has crept into modern hunting through the relentless "progress" of technological improvements and marketing.

I believe that if a shot at a live animal is to be ethical, there must be a commitment on the part of the hunter pulling the trigger to take only shots that are within their skill to make, and that person has to assume the consequences of his or her actions.

So, what are the consequences of shooting at a big game animal at very long range?
1. It is much more difficult to determine if the shot connected at all, even good hits, and even with a "spotter" watching through binoculars
2. Bullet speed is reduced, increasing the possibility of a wounding shot even with good placement
3. Wind and mirage may make the possibility of a wounding shot more likely even with perfect "aim"
4. At extreme long range, the animal has time to move between the best placed shot and the bullet actually arriving
5. If a shot connects but the animal is not dead, the possibility of a quick and merciful finishing shot is often precluded by brush, terrain, or movement
6. It is much more difficult to find the spot where an animal was standing in order to check for hair, blood, or tracks and confirm that the shot was a clean miss.
7. The distance involved in long shots makes many long distance shooters fail to walk all the way over to the spot where the animal was standing to confirm that the shot was a clean miss, and unfortunately many of those shooters do not possess the tracking skills required to find and follow up wounded game.

So, when is a shot ethical and when isn't it? I won't presume to tell anyone else what is right for their skills and equipment and I would hope that others accept that I am the right person to decide for myself. We should be personally responsible for our own actions and not impose our judgement on others. However, if there are no personal consequences from a wounding shot causing suffering and waste, human nature says: why not take whatever chances come along, the next chance might work!

There is no mystery to the fact that very few long distance or "hope" shots are taken in Africa where every animal shot, whether actually bagged or not, results in a trophy fee charged to the hunter. I propose a simple but challenging test for hunters in Canada if they want an unambiguous way to decide when to shoot and when not to. Take any shot you feel confident in making. BUT If you draw blood, the hunt is over! Whether or not you recover the animal, choose notch the tag, and hang it up. It is that simple.

Are the long distance shooters or the rest of us up to that challenge? I hope so.
 
I am not a fan of long range shots at game animals, because a much larger percentage of the animals hit at long range are lost and wasted or wounded and left in pain. Plain and simple.

If someone wants to spend their hunting time fiddling with technology and enjoys range finders, target turrets, ballistics charts, wind meters, tuning loads for sub MOA, magnum cartridges, muzzle brakes, bipods, etc. etc, they should do that! I do some of the same and thoroughly enjoy the techno - geek approach to a lot of my shooting.

BUT animals are living breathing creatures and this IS a discussion about ethics, which makes far too many hunters uncomfortable. That is kinda sad in my opinion. Ethics are important! They are a big part of what makes us human, and the values that we uphold as hunters really do matter to our own self worth and to society. I think this discussion really comes down to a culture of entitlement that has crept into modern hunting through the relentless "progress" of technological improvements and marketing.

I believe that if a shot at a live animal is to be ethical, there must be a commitment on the part of the hunter pulling the trigger to take only shots that are within their skill to make, and that person has to assume the consequences of his or her actions.

So, what are the consequences of shooting at a big game animal at very long range?
1. It is much more difficult to determine if the shot connected at all, even good hits, and even with a "spotter" watching through binoculars
2. Bullet speed is reduced, increasing the possibility of a wounding shot even with good placement
3. Wind and mirage may make the possibility of a wounding shot more likely even with perfect "aim"
4. At extreme long range, the animal has time to move between the best placed shot and the bullet actually arriving
5. If a shot connects but the animal is not dead, the possibility of a quick and merciful finishing shot is often precluded by brush, terrain, or movement
6. It is much more difficult to find the spot where an animal was standing in order to check for hair, blood, or tracks and confirm that the shot was a clean miss.
7. The distance involved in long shots makes many long distance shooters fail to walk all the way over to the spot where the animal was standing to confirm that the shot was a clean miss, and unfortunately many of those shooters do not possess the tracking skills required to find and follow up wounded game.

So, when is a shot ethical and when isn't it? I won't presume to tell anyone else what is right for their skills and equipment and I would hope that others accept that I am the right person to decide for myself. We should be personally responsible for our own actions and not impose our judgement on others. However, if there are no personal consequences from a wounding shot causing suffering and waste, human nature says: why not take whatever chances come along, the next chance might work!

There is no mystery to the fact that very few long distance or "hope" shots are taken in Africa where every animal shot, whether actually bagged or not, results in a trophy fee charged to the hunter. I propose a simple but challenging test for hunters in Canada if they want an unambiguous way to decide when to shoot and when not to. Take any shot you feel confident in making. BUT If you draw blood, the hunt is over! Whether or not you recover the animal, choose notch the tag, and hang it up. It is that simple.

Are the long distance shooters or the rest of us up to that challenge? I hope so.


Excellent.

And to add my opinion to the direction this thread has gone, I have no desire to ever take a shot beyond about 350 yards. I know that, with my shooting sticks, I can always place a bullet within about 5 inches of my POA at 350.

I know I will not try the shot if the wind is strong enough that it is getting my attention as I set up for the shot. I know that if wind is really noticeable, I will shoot a much bigger group.

I know I will not shoot if the animal is moving at all at that range. I know that time of bullet flight is short enough that it is very unlikely the animal will move during that time, if he is still at the shot. I know that my bullet will perform at that range.

I also know that hunting for me means getting as close as I can to the animal before I am forced to take the shot, so I know that my first reaction to seeing game at 600 yards, is to start getting closer. I have no desire to gather all the equipment needed for accurate extreme range shooting, and deliberately set out to try to shoot deer at long range. So........

"Shooting at stuff" has never been my definition of hunting. "Hunting" is, first and foremost, about getting close.
 
Take any shot you feel confident in making. BUT If you draw blood, the hunt is over! Whether or not you recover the animal, choose notch the tag, and hang it up. It is that simple.

Are the long distance shooters or the rest of us up to that challenge? I hope so.


Now there is a respectable take on things.
 
Article is ridiculous with so many other analogies that could be made against types of hunting that is not "fair" or "ethical" in the eyes of somebody else....I have access to more long range rifles than most and I choose to hunt with an old short barreled M15STS in 308 out of a treestand in the bush....Sitting in a tree is so unfair...lol...

OK, fair enough. So why do you choose to hunt this way?
 
Wounding and not recovering an animal is the cardinal sin in any type of hunting we choose to partake in. After that the rest is up to you.
 
I have no problem with competent people shooting game at 7, 8, 900 yards....whatever there comfortable with. It's not for me though that's for sure. I wonder if the guy that is so sure that more animals are wounded and not recovered has any data to back his claim up?

Irresponsible people in the field are what I have a problem with. Whether they are people that think their long range hunters, good archers, good running shots, etc. when really they are not.

There are many new tools, tricks and tactics that change the way we hunt. It is absurd to embrace some technology that fits in with your personal tastes but say that others are not hunters b/c of te technology that they embrace...
 
I could make a humane argument FOR long distance shooting, after all is it really proper for a bunch of guys to drive a small bush, leaving the deer no escape other than to sprint out, scared out of its wits, in front of a dozen hunters or more taking shots at it, less than 50yrds away. I will not participate in such activities, but is it my place to claim it is not hunting because i dont approve? Again of course not, who am i too judge?


The difference is that in an up close drive like that deer have the ability to use their natural senses to avoid getting shot. I think drive hunting is more fair to the deer than even stand hunting is , and if you spend much time doing both you see that IMO. a deer will hide as a pusher walks 10 yards by him , they will find the path between posters or circle back behind the drivers. If you want more proof of that take a look at the kind of deer that get shot for the most part. Young deer because they aren't quite as wary or clever get shot most often on these drives.

The other thing is that there gets to be a point in long distance shooting that the animal can actually move before the bullet gets there. If the flight time is .5 of a second thats all it takes for a deer to take one step and get gut shot instead of center lungs. Those distances are pretty extreme but animals are getting shot at from those distances

I do however agree with your perspective for the most part though
 
Rifle manufacturers cater to the long range wanna bees by producing 300 ultra mags and 338 lapua magnum and the likes....

As mentioned, they should remain bench shooters for the wounding aspect of insane long range shots.

Im surprised none of their owners have chimed in.

Ill remain humble using a 308/ 06 or 284 Winchester. I would still rather use a classic old Winchester lever.. they seem to be level ground for fair chase.
 
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